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 Author | Topic: Tatehagi Dou - Planning (Read 1,565 times) |
mrcunningham
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|  | Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Thread Started on Sept 30, 2006, 7:01pm » | |
It's time. I've been fighting for 13 months. I have now worked out a lot of kinks in coming to understand what I need/want in armour. I will now proceed to make myself a new dou. The tentative deadline is Thanksgiving.
Here's what I plan to make: a tatehagi okegawa ni-mai dou. My material will be 18 and 16 gauge mild steel.
My first questions (since I really want to get this right):
1) What sort of pattern do I use? I suspect I should use Effingham-dono's pattern for the hotoke dou, and just account for overlap. But I'm not sure.
2) How do I know how many lames to use? I want to go with seven, so there's significant overlap. But is that enough for both sides (front and back)? Should there be an even number of lames on both sides?
3) How much dishing should be involved, if any? If there is dishing to do, can someone point me in the direction of how to set this up? I'd think dishing long strips of steel would require different tools than dome dishing. Would simple raising work (like over the round end of a railroad spike)?
I'd say that "great minds think alike," but really I have been _inspired_ by Otagiri-dono's Pennsic Katchu Kwest, er Quest. I want to get this right.
Arregatou in advance, tomodachi(s). (What's the plural?)
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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Otagiri Tatsuzou
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #1 on Oct 1, 2006, 12:14pm » | |
You know just about everything I know about these dou. But here is a dou constructed from multiple vertical lames you might be interested in seeing.
http://rhinohide.cx/daimyou/daimyouryoum....T745/index.html
My inadequate dishing setup constisted of two parts.
One - I took a 12" piece of 10" diameter thick walled steel pipe and cut it into several long sections. This gave me a C-curve into which I curved the 3" wide strips.
Two - after I rivetted the strips into plates, I lightly dished the front plate with a rubber mallet and a bowling ball.
These aren't the best methods ... just sharing what I did.
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Kuni no chi kore hei nari / The blood of the Kingdom is its soldiers.
Kuni no kokoro kore shi nari / The heart of the Kingdom is its chivalry. |
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CajunCoder
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #2 on Oct 3, 2006, 3:58am » | |
Quote:
Arregatou in advance, tomodachi(s). (What's the plural?) |
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I apologise for not being of any help on this subject, as I've never created armour. However, I can help with the so often slaughtered Japanese language 
"tomodachi" can refer to either one, or many friends. Japanese is a wonderful language, in that it does away with useless concepts such as plurals, and words such as "the" and "a".
Though you spelled it wrong, at least you have the "u" on the end of "arigatou" 
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #3 on Oct 11, 2006, 3:23pm » | |
Right, then. If I've got no response from resident masters (Mykaru-sensei and Effingham-sensei in particular), then I'll go for it. Here goes nothing. Much thanks to Otagiri-dono, over and over again. And again and again.
Look for updates here.
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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Makiwara
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #4 on Oct 12, 2006, 9:37am » | |
I understand Effingham-sensei is having problems with his internet connection - if you haven't heard from him, that's why.
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Otagiri Tatsuzou
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #5 on Oct 12, 2006, 12:18pm » | |
You'll do great. Looking forward to progress pics!
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Kuni no chi kore hei nari / The blood of the Kingdom is its soldiers.
Kuni no kokoro kore shi nari / The heart of the Kingdom is its chivalry. |
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AJBryant
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #6 on Oct 12, 2006, 8:17pm » | |
They've finally fixed things. 
There's no rule on tatehagi okegawa do. For example, the very front section (corresponding to the panel under the munaita) can be three or five plates. Use those as your "width" basis for all the other plates. Be consistent as possible.
Effingham
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #7 on Oct 13, 2006, 4:59am » | |
Much obliged, Effingham-sensei. And thanks for the encouragement from the rest of y'all! I'll get patterning this weekend.
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #8 on Oct 14, 2006, 3:45pm » | |
Patterning underway. I decided _not_ to make all the plates subtle trapezoids; maybe next time. Instead, I calculated out the width of the plates as rectangles (starting from my munaita and oshitsuke-no-ita measurements and assuming five plates in the tateage). Then I fudged the outermost plates on each side to become pseudo-trapezoids with right angles on two corners (like a real trapezoid cut down the center) to make a taper from the armpit down to the waist. (Obviously, I'll cut the bottom of the whole thing so it's nice and wavy like it should be.) I'll print out and play with the pattern, then post pics ASAP.
For anyone interested, and to back up my work this afternoon, here are the really nitty gritty details:
TATEHAGI DOU
_Do:_
Type: ni-mai (okegawa) tatehagi do
Using "Hotoke dou" pattern as a basis.
My Measurements (From Effingham's page on Making A Do):
A - Chest circumference: 36 and 1/2 inches
B - Waist (level of navel) circ: 34 inches
C - Top-of-hip circ: 33 inches
D - Buttock circ (widest): 40 and 3/4 inches
E - Nipple-to-nipple: (used for width of front tateage) 9 and 1/2 inches
F - Across shoulder-blades to the end of your torso: 18 inches
G - Armpit to waist: 10 inches
H - Navel to base of your throat: 15 inches
Rivets will be placed every 2 inches, all the way down. 1/2 inch overlap
everywhere.
Front tateage: 9.25 inches wide. This means five front kozane (the vertical strips)
will be (when the math is roughed out) 2.25 inches wide (which will then overlap).
Back tateage: 11.3 inches wide. This means five back kozane will be 2 and 2/3
inches wide.
Using this guideline:
The front section will be 17.25 inches wide at the armpit. 9 plates total. 5
center plates at 2.25 inches wide, roughly 14 inches tall. 2 side plates (1 each on
left and right) at 2.25 inches wide, 9 inches tall. Then two outermost plates at
2.75 inches wide (at the top), 9 inches tall, 2.125 inches (2 and 1/8) wide at the
bottom (with the armpit corner being at a right angle to the adjacent plate).
All measurements are taken BEFORE the curvature of the bottom (as seen in the
hotoke dou pattern) is taken into account.
The back section will be 19.25 inches wide at the armpit. 9 plates total. 5 center
plates at 2 and 2/3 inches wide, 15 inches tall. 2 side plates (1 on each side) at
2 and 2/3 inches wide, 9 inches tall. Two outermost plates at 2.375 (2 and 3/8)
inches wide (at the top), 9 inches tall, 1 and 1/3 inches wide at the bottom (with
the armpit corner being at a right angle to the adjacent plate).
All measurements are taken BEFORE the curvature of the bottom (as seen in the
hotoke dou pattern) is taken into account.
front Wakiita are 5 inches tall, by 5 inches long
back Wakiita are 5 and 1/2 inches tall, by 5 inches long
Kusazuri: 7 sets, 5 lames each. Sugake odoshi. Each will be 2.5 inches wide/tall.
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #9 on Nov 16, 2006, 7:19am » | |
So I haven't updated in far too long. Finding time to cut metal has been tough. But we're almost at the assembly stage, and I'm having kusazuri issues.
I patterned for seven sets of kusazuri, each set having 5 lames, but the pattern looks too narrow (each set is 10.5 inches tall with overlap, the bottom is 5.5 inches wide and the top is 5 inches wide). Is there 1 too many lames? Should I just make the bottom wider to get the look right? Will this problem be fixed when it's all in steel and full of laces?
[Edit: PS: Pictures soon of both pattern and steel.]
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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Squire to Sir Aonghaus MacLabhruinn of Brus |
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Otagiri Tatsuzou
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #10 on Nov 16, 2006, 10:31am » | |
Those are too narrow for my taste. There are plenty of existing dou with kusasuri which are too narrow for my taste.
I'm working off of memory ... but for my tatehagi with something like a 45 inch waist (including overlap), I had 8 sets of kusazuri. Each set had five lames. The first lame was 5.5" wide at top and each descending lame was 1/2 each wider than the previous.
When I used 7 lames, I made the back four to this formula but used a wider starting lame for the front three. Possibly 7.5 inches. (4x5.5=22 inches; 3x7.5=21.5 inches) Maybe these were a 1/2 inch shorter to avoid the overlap?
So there you go. A formula.
Equal number of kusazuri
==================
C=circumference=width of the dou (excluding overlap)
N=number of sets
W=width of top lame
W=C/N
Each descending lame is 1/2" wider than the previous
A set of 7 kusazuri
==================
C=circumference=width of the dou (excluding overlap)
N=number of sets
WB=width of top lame in the back
WF=width of top lame in the front
WB=C/8
WF=C/6
Each descending lame is 1/2" wider than the previous
This formula is based on my personal taste.
As I said before , there are plenty of dou with narrower kusazuri than these.
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Kuni no chi kore hei nari / The blood of the Kingdom is its soldiers.
Kuni no kokoro kore shi nari / The heart of the Kingdom is its chivalry. |
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #11 on Nov 16, 2006, 5:47pm » | |
Ah ha! Arregato gozaimasu Otagiri-dono. I see now my problem was that I was using Effingham-sensei's notion that I should make the total bottom circumference of the kusazuri equal my armpit circumference. The waist is fine, but my chest isn't big enough for this to look like anything. I used your idea, adding a half-inch at each lame, and it looks PERFECT. Speaking of which, back to patterning...
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #12 on Apr 6, 2007, 1:51pm » | |
Bump. Gotta get this done by next Saturday's Coronation. Lacing over this long weekend. *grumble-grumble-hishinui-no-ita-grumble*
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
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Squire to Sir Aonghaus MacLabhruinn of Brus |
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Makiwara
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #13 on Apr 6, 2007, 3:27pm » | |
Quote:| Bump. Gotta get this done by next Saturday's Coronation. Lacing over this long weekend. *grumble-grumble-hishinui-no-ita-grumble* |
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PICTURES!!!!!! Pretty please?
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さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know.
い
お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora
ん
じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity.
は
な ..........
http://www.wodefordhall.com |
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mrcunningham
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| | Re: Tatehagi Dou - Planning
« Reply #14 on Apr 6, 2007, 6:59pm » | |
Quote:| PICTURES!!!!!! Pretty please? |
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First thing tomorrow I'll post pictures of the plans, the unpainted metal, and whatever else I can find. I PROMISE.
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Lord Honda Saburou Taremitsu
Quintavia, The East
Squire to Sir Aonghaus MacLabhruinn of Brus |
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