|
 Author | Topic: Tosenin's kosode (Read 3,603 times) |
Makiwara
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://www.wodefordhall.com/mysca.jpg "[avatar]")
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
![[homepage]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female 
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
|  | Tosenin's kosode
« Thread Started on Jun 12, 2007, 5:56pm » | |
I have been wanting to attempt to replicate the brown and gold kosode shown in this portrait for some time. Unfortunately, the image I have, from Momoyama: Japan's Golden Age is not very large. ![[image]](http://www.wodefordhall.com/tosenin.jpg "[image]")
The diamond pattern is easy enough to reproduce. However, I'm hoping to identify the white flowers. If anyone has seen a better image or has better eyes than I do and a clue what they might be, I would be most grateful.
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Noriko
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m317/Little_Rat99/heianrat2.jpg "[avatar]")
Joined: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 591
Location: Boston
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #1 on Jun 12, 2007, 9:30pm » | |
Well, looks like something with five petals/leaves. I went over to the komon site and there appear to be a few matches but then I noticed there were some dotty things around the flowers. If anything, they kind of look like the Paulownia flowers on a hanafuda set[1], though none of the Paulownia mons have a similar design. Might just want to go with a five petaled flower that has space in between- cherry looks like a good match[2] as well as kikyo[3].
[1] http://www.sloperama.com/gostop/cards.html , and scroll down.
[2] http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/plant/sakura.htm
[3] http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/plant/kikyo.htm
* moderator edit to make http links 'live'
| |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #2 on Jun 12, 2007, 9:52pm » | |
Maybe.... though I'm seeing a lot of blue kikyo when I look for images of the plant.
Looky what I found. Not comprehensive, but possibly of use:
http://www.asgy.co.jp/anglais/classify/plants/plants1.html
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| |
Ii Toonishi-no-kami Katsumori
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://static.flickr.com/117/314838684_8b2cc06024_t.jpg "[avatar]")
Joined: Mar 2005
Gender: Male 
Posts: 1,056
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #4 on Jun 13, 2007, 5:57am » | |
Are we sure that should be brown? The undermost layer peeking out should, I would think, be a reddish-orange if it follows most of what I have seen, and the stripes along the edge would likewise be vibrant colors. It looks like it has faded and maybe lost something from the original. I'd recommend looking into that and seeing if it truly is brown or not.
-Ii
| |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #5 on Jun 13, 2007, 8:27am » | |
Quote:| Are we sure that should be brown? The undermost layer peeking out should, I would think, be a reddish-orange if it follows most of what I have seen, and the stripes along the edge would likewise be vibrant colors. It looks like it has faded and maybe lost something from the original. I'd recommend looking into that and seeing if it truly is brown or not. |
|
Blue dye on silk fades purple. Purple dye on silk goes brown. Green dye on silk goes tan - I used to have the horse show ribbons to prove it. But what about painting pigments?
What other color do you think it would be? I expect the koshimaki to have been much brighter, but I still think the kosode is brown. Why would it not be? It's a very strong brown. In fact the brown is the strongest color on the portrait.
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #6 on Jun 28, 2007, 10:31pm » | |
I put this into my photo editor and cranked it to "actual view". It's a bit grainy, but :
(a) the gold lozenges have varying patterns inside them.
(b) I think the flowers could be clematis. In addition to five-petaled flowers, there are some white drops of buds and the shape of the leaves that resemble a clematis motif on a kimono in one of my other books.
![[image]](http://www.wodefordhall.com/tosenindetail.jpg "[image]")
(I love this portrait. She is just so iki.)
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Hiroyuki
member is offline
"Yamamura Masutarou Hiroyuki"
Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 165
Location: Colorado springs, co
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #7 on Jun 29, 2007, 10:58am » | |
We all know you can pull this off great Makiwara-hime.
|
"Vision without action is a daydream, action without vision is a nightmare..." |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #8 on Jun 29, 2007, 10:26pm » | |
(Gulp.) Sure. No pressure....
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #9 on Jun 30, 2007, 1:53pm » | |
Just cut out the silk for this and remembered why I got it so cheap in the first place and why I'd stuck it in the bottom of that box "for later." The dyeing is rather blotchy - what a shame! So I'm off to the art store in Berkeley that carries silk dye in the hope of evening things out a bit.
Other thoughts. The painting shows design elements overlapping seam lines at the eri and okumi - you can see this represented by white lines running diagonally from the top of the detail picture posted earlier. This is completely NUTS from a construction standpoint and poses significant lay-out problems. Artistic licence, yeah, that's right......
EDIT: Overdying seems to have fixed the blotchiness. It came out of the dyebath looking promising and even better once I pulled it all out of the dryer.
I used my new favorite cheat - since the fabric was 60" wide, I cut a double width body panel, slit it only up one half and sew a false backseam on the unslit half using a running stitch. Because I'm handsewing, this is one less seam that requires finishing. I should have both okumi attached with finished seams by tonight, and possibly even have the sleeves attached at the shoulder. This means I can lay it flat on my painting table when it comes time to start painting. I will not attach the collar yet. Since it's sewn around a curve once it is attached, it's easier to paint that separately, then put it on.
I also acquired a couple of those mini-punch things that are used for scrapbooking to try on a stencil blank once I figure out how I want to lay out the lozenge shapes.
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
Hiroyuki
member is offline
"Yamamura Masutarou Hiroyuki"
Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 165
Location: Colorado springs, co
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #10 on Jun 30, 2007, 2:11pm » | |
Good luck makiwara-hime! And as always, we so expect pics ofd the process 
|
"Vision without action is a daydream, action without vision is a nightmare..." |
|
madyaas
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1206/908497404_7d6a513a59.jpg "[avatar]")
Point Lobos
![[yim]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/yim.gif "[yim]")
Joined: Sept 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 398
Location: Matsue, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #11 on Jun 30, 2007, 5:20pm » | |
Quote:
Other thoughts. The painting shows design elements overlapping seam lines at the eri and okumi - you can see this represented by white lines running diagonally from the top of the detail picture posted earlier. This is completely NUTS from a construction standpoint and poses significant lay-out problems. Artistic licence, yeah, that's right...... |
|
Also, if you look where the folds of her clothing are, you can tell the artist went the easy approach and simply placed the design flat over her kosode, rather than trying to imagine how the image would look folded.
|
Second Avenue, raising Cain
I'm a sinner, ring my bell (hey)
I'll tell you what, I get up
If I knew I fell |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #12 on Jun 30, 2007, 6:32pm » | |
Quote:| Also, if you look where the folds of her clothing are, you can tell the artist went the easy approach and simply placed the design flat over her kosode, rather than trying to imagine how the image would look folded. |
|
Nobody ever said Yamato-e* was photorealistic - though it can be increcibly detailed.
*Japanese painting.
|
さ .......... Ei. Wa. Chi. (Honor. Harmony. Knowledge.) - Some guy I know. い お .......... Life is short. Eat dessert first. - Fujimaki Tosaburou Hidetora ん じ .......... What would Sei Shonagon do? Chronicle all your shortcomings for posterity. は な .......... http://www.wodefordhall.com |
|
dianet
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/avatars/redcreature.gif "[avatar]")
![[aim]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/aim.gif "[aim]")
Joined: Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 519
| | Re: Tosenin's kosode
« Reply #13 on Jun 30, 2007, 6:46pm » | |
Hmmm.. Could those flowers possibly be Jasmine or Honeysuckle?
Just curious.
| |
|
Makiwara
member is offline
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,264
Location: Bay Area, CA
| |
|
![[Home]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[Help]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Calendar]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/calendar.gif "[Calendar]")
![[Login]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif "[Send Topic To Friend]")
![[Print]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Logged