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Post by Inoue Tsukiko on Oct 14, 2005 19:19:19 GMT -5
Hello Hello!
Where would I look for information on winter weather wear? I remember reading something once upon a time concerning raw silk being sewn into kimono which sounds a bit as if it was quilted, but it didn't say so outright.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 14, 2005 20:01:26 GMT -5
What period? What class? There's a reason they make long-johns out of silk. From Dalby's Kimono: Fashioning Culture, a description of Heian period winter wear: "The tenth lunar month, modern November, marked the official beginning of winter. Glossed silk (neriginu) garments were made of silk treated with lye and pounded to remove natural sericin. This process rendered the cloth soft and pliant. These robes were also made warmer by inserting padding of silk floss between the face and lining. Such robes were worn for precicely half the year, from the start of winter through spring right up to the official beginning of summer, corresponding to modern May. At that point they were replaced again by lighter robes." Dalby specifically does NOT use the word quilted. I cannot envision people walking around in the period equivalent of modern down parkas and I have to think that said padding was relatively light in comparison. These garments were specifically designed to have been worn in multiple layers, and layers add warmth because there are more places to trap body heat. From personal experience, unlined silk with a smooth, tight weave is a terrific windbreaker. Saionji
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madyaas
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Post by madyaas on Oct 14, 2005 21:04:43 GMT -5
Dalby specifically does NOT use the word quilted. I cannot envision people walking around in the period equivalent of modern down parkas and I have to think that said padding was relatively light in comparison. These garments were specifically designed to have been worn in multiple layers, and layers add warmth because there are more places to trap body heat. From personal experience, unlined silk with a smooth, tight weave is a terrific windbreaker. Saionji I wonder then how they kept the floss padding from slipping and ending up at the bottom of the robe?
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 14, 2005 21:41:13 GMT -5
Good question. I just Googled "padded kimono" and "quilted kimono" and found these: www.kyotokimono.com/WhatsForSale/ChildrensKimono/1104GK11front.JPGNot great images, but I can't see any stitches. I'm thinking that if you didn't want visible quilting stitch on the exterior of the garment that you might tack the padding to the lining. It doesn't get that cold here so I confess that I haven't given it a lot of thought. (Unlined multiple layers usually work quite well for me.) Sashiko is a quilting/stitching technique that you see in peasant clothing in the Edo period and after. It's highly decorative, usually white thread on indigo and it's very cool, but not exactly period for SCA applications. www.trocadero.com/eurasia/items/428113/en3store.htmlCheck out this gorgeous fireman's coat! Quilted jackets decorated with auspicious motifs were soaked with water. www.jmstrelitz.com/00_textiles.htmS.
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Post by Nagamochi on Oct 15, 2005 0:29:18 GMT -5
As quoted from "Make Your Own Japanese Clothes" by John Marshall:
Hanten, vests, and kimono are padded for extra warthm in winter... The first is the traditional method wherein there is little or no stitching through the layers to hold the batting in place. The secret to this method is the use of mawata, or an expanded silk cocoon, between the fabric and the batting. Mawata is available at Japanese sewing supplies shops, but difficult to find in the United States.
The section goes into a short rant about a few items not useful to this string, but basically states that mawata are the cocoons which have been discarded due to excessive flaws, thus the sericen has not been removed. So by means of streching and sticking the pods to another layer of batting, i.e. cotton or wool, the padding, along with fabric, is carried entirely on the shoulders while the mawata quite literally glues it all together.
Though if all else fails, you could just cross-over to the Dark Side and become a kuge. (oh those beautiful layers, and layers, and layers, and....)
Hope this helps shed some light, Nagamochi
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 15, 2005 1:01:39 GMT -5
Brilliant! I did not know this. (BTW, wool doesn't catch on in Japan until after our period. There are episodes in Samurai William where European traders cannot get the Japanese interested in their bales of English wool for anything.
S.
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Post by Nagamochi on Oct 15, 2005 2:12:56 GMT -5
So Big Sis, does this mean you could find and send me some mawata, and I'll send you some real Wisconsin cheese? (Not that silly plastic orange died stuff youse make out dere in KaliFORNia, dontcha know.)
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 15, 2005 11:57:09 GMT -5
Wouldn't know where to begin, but if I find a source, I'll share. Why would you send me cheese? We have cheese. Real California Cheese that comes out of Happy California Cows like Janice and Diane! www.realcaliforniacheese.com/Saionji
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Oct 16, 2005 1:19:17 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Hello Hello! Where would I look for information on winter weather wear? I remember reading something once upon a time concerning raw silk being sewn into kimono which sounds a bit as if it was quilted, but it didn't say so outright. Rations of "floss" regularly appear in stipends listed in the Engishiki which is a Heian period document. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
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madyaas
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Post by madyaas on Oct 16, 2005 3:56:17 GMT -5
So Big Sis, does this mean you could find and send me some mawata, and I'll send you some real Wisconsin cheese? (Not that silly plastic orange died stuff youse make out dere in KaliFORNia, dontcha know.) Oooh no she didn't. Because you know, we have all of these fabulous exotic foods in our grocery stores, but we make nothing but "plastic" cheese. First a fit over my sensu and now she disses California cheese. We actually have a lot of very good cheeses which aren't plastic orange "dyed" stuff either. Besides, we have a cheese which originates here as well, Monterey Jack Cheese (which by the way isn't dyed like your native Wisconsin colby . For that offense, I say no Mawata for you! ;D (I'm being silly, of course)
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 16, 2005 12:47:38 GMT -5
To quote K-Pax, "The produce alone is worth the trip." Envy me, my darlings, I only live a few miles from heaven, er, I mean, the Berkeley Bowl: www.berkeleybowl.com/pages/main.html Given the ad campaign of the California Cheese Board, silly is appropriate. S.
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Post by Inoue Tsukiko on Oct 16, 2005 22:33:52 GMT -5
So, I was right and I wasn't hallucinating about reading on floss and silk being used as insulation.
But, my pockets aren't deep enough to afford the silk so I'm wondering what would be a better choice for a 'fill'. First thought would be a micro-fleece, but it stretches under its own weight, is heavy, and will pull at the seams of the fabric. Ruining the lines. Bonus of this stuff is that its very machine washable.
Second thought would be using thinsulate batting. I made a quilt using it, and its warm and light. Definitely good enough for going from home to car to event, and general walking from building to building. Negative is that even though its generous in not needing to be tacked down as much as other battings out there but... Wear and tear would shift the batting and bunch it. It would be dry clean only and not machine washable with so little holding it in place. Unless there's something out there that would make it stick to the fabric? Or perhaps quilted anyway, and that quilting used as the lining in or rather inside the kimono? It could still be carried by the shoulders that way, and not ruin the lines.
Any other ideas?
I shouldn't post so late at night. I'm not understanding myself! But I want to be warm this winter at events.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 16, 2005 23:01:07 GMT -5
What part of the country are you in and what sort of weather are you planning to wear it in?
I'm thinking quilting your fill fiber of choice to the lining layer ought to work. Or have two lining layers with the batting quilted in between, then attach that to the outer layer as if it's one lining layer. That extra lining layer is one more place to trap air and heat....
S.
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Post by Inoue Tsukiko on Oct 16, 2005 23:24:42 GMT -5
Minnesota. Usually Twin Cities area, but every so often I head even farther up north. I always pack along a good winter jacket when it gets to be really cold, but in the intermediate I'd like to have a little something that doesn't feel as if I'm trying to squeeze ten yards of fabric into something only constructed and mass produced for two.
Its very uncomfortable in the extreme. Plus it puts really nasty wrinkles in my clothing before I even get a chance to do anything besides get out of the car. Wrinkles and I have a mutual loathing of one another. I iron my tabi. Impressed one woman in dance so much she took up ironing her tabi too. I iron the shitagake too, and no one can see those under the yugake! Wrinkles bad, bad... I just had a vision of myself brandishing an iron. It was such a cute picture too. Oh boy, I am tired. ;D
I have arthritis, poor blood circulation, and the cold hits me really fast and hard. So I try to have an ample winter wardrobe on hand.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 16, 2005 23:40:20 GMT -5
Nuff said! I was born in Minneapolis. We moved east for a few years, then went back for another two while Dad got his Ph.D. I hated the winters.
Even though I broke up with the man I followed to California, I really like the climate here. So do my sinuses.
Hmm, I wonder how wool fill would work for you?
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