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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 15, 2011 0:36:12 GMT -5
When it's all built and fought in, I will.
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Mar 15, 2011 8:43:23 GMT -5
Don't. There is no such thing as too far in. You are doing excellent work so far. I know it's hard to go back when the end is in sight, but you'll be happier for it. The old "I'll do it on the *next* one" seldom occurs. The shape on the dou is fine but the kusazuri really need the shiki. Look at these. www.pbase.com/joanseeuw/image/62917360
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Mar 15, 2011 8:46:06 GMT -5
Mine is also constructed the same way: Effingham plates sans shiki. It ends of being more flexible than it "should" be but seems to work fine. Will you please give us a report about how it functions and takes a hit - especially without tomegawa? In my experience, the lamellar by itself isn't enough to take a hit. I wear extra padding underneath it covering my kidneys, ribs, and chest. (I leave my belly with no extra padding underneath the do because I have enough squishiness there already). After two years of fighting, my tomegawa are breaking and need to be replaced.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 15, 2011 15:33:57 GMT -5
Kurodachi-dono, I appreciate that you think highly enough of me to suggest that I go back. I don't think I'm going to, though. I am frustrated with the process and see an ending that results in functional SCA armor in sight. I'm taking it. If that means I need to put padding underneath it, then so be it. If that means the kusazuri look a little wrong, and I can explain what happened but that I decided to keep going anyway, then so be it. If I were to tear this apart and start over, there's almost no chance I would complete the project due to the punishment to my motivation. I need a win.
For the reference of people who come after, what am I supposed to make shiki out of? Part of the reason I ignored them was that Effingham-sensei was quite terse about them other than saying that they should be strips of 16-guage steel. How wide should they be? Do they go on the outward-facing side or the inward-facing side? My impression is that I lace the boards together flat, and manhandle the boards into the shape I want, and the shiki will adjust to this manhandling and then hold the shape. Is that right?
Kano-dono, can you explain how you attach the tomegawa? I can't figure out how to do it without drilling more holes in the scales.
I feel a little crushed about how this project has gone now. I was trying to establish early on with pictorial demonstrations of my work that I was actually serious about doing this and that I wasn't going to disappear on you, but I feel like I'm only getting the help I really need to do it correctly after it's too late to do so. I also understand that it's no fun to help someone and have them disappear afterward. What was I supposed to do to motivate everyone here to help me in more detail earlier in the process?
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Post by Suzuki Ken'ichi on Mar 15, 2011 17:09:44 GMT -5
As for myself, I have had no advice to offer you, since I'm learning from you as you go. I have tried to encourage you by showing my enthusiasm for what you're doing, and have hoped that was payment enough for learning from your efforts.
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Post by kazuyama on Mar 15, 2011 19:43:33 GMT -5
You have gone much further than I would have. Don't get discouraged, the work you've done is awesome!
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Post by pallidus on Mar 16, 2011 0:16:44 GMT -5
Mitsumasa- I completely understand where you are coming from! I am almost as done as you are on my ryo awase do. I'm not as good at posting pictures so I don't document nearly as well as you. Here are some of my same troubles.
The front and back are completed after tearing them both down and having to restart the front three times and the back twice-having to make 4 kote patterns to have them fit right - also having the powder coating come out wrong on my dou and having to have it stripped completely off and start over AGAIN - and cutting and mounting four different watagami to have them fit right. The lacing had the wrong sized spacing and I had to re-do it exactly 15 times before it came out. I spent two entire weekends and $200 in materials attempting to dye some lace material that turned out was un-dyeable because of silicon inside the lace (had to call the manufacturer to figure that one out). Finally went with shoelaces. I also found out that my lacing for the shoulder frogs was way to big didn't fit the other materials I had, and so had to re-do all of the frogs. Almost nothing has gone right. The damn thing is still not finished and I still don't know if it will all work together.
Its so hard to describe in writing how to go about making something when you could do it in 2 minutes in person. And there are a very few amount of people who are qualified to do so. I hear what you are saying about needing a win. I need one too. I'm a martial artist and I'm itching to fight in this suit. I have trained 22 years in the Bujinkan (a traditional Japanese martial art) and 15 in the SCA. It is my dream to have a complete Japanese suit of fight-able quality, and I will achieve it. Everyone wants you to succeed! As they say in the Bujinkan "Bufu Ikkan". Keep going.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 16, 2011 0:34:35 GMT -5
Tomodachi, you've been in the SCA how long and you've been hitting 'em out of the ballpark in the garb department.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 16, 2011 2:03:52 GMT -5
A complicated clothing project takes me tens of hours, and I understand the process I'm going through when I do it. This has already hit hundreds with no useful result. I don't have perspective on that yet.
In terms of expense, materials, and time, I would rather just finish this to get experience doing the rest of the process and then start over. I'm pretty sure that the time I would spend taking this apart would "cost more" than just buying new scales and lacing.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 16, 2011 13:01:30 GMT -5
I repeat my questions from above:
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on Mar 16, 2011 16:56:37 GMT -5
The *easiest* shiki source is the local hardware store. Almost every hardware store, somewhere, has a bin with small plates, tubes, rods, and sheets of thin metal. Just grab a few of the metal (aluminum, stainless, brass -- doesn't matter) that's about 1/16" x 3/16" -- and about six or eight inches long. They're probably going to be about a buck each. One of those = one shiki.
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Mar 17, 2011 8:52:45 GMT -5
Kano-dono, can you explain how you attach the tomegawa? I can't figure out how to do it without drilling more holes in the scales. sengokudaimyo.com says it's okay to open extra holes every 3" or so. I instead used the existing holes, using thick thread to tie the top row of holes of the lower lame to the bottom row of holes of the upper lame. It's hard to show without pictures, but if you do it right the tomegawa are hidden behind the odoshi. But as I said, the thread I used wasn't durable enough and needs to be replaced.
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Mar 17, 2011 11:43:47 GMT -5
Ok let me offer some advice
Bear in mind this is on a mobile phone.
You need some hard protection for your kidneys ?
Ok easy enough
Take some leather. Harden it. Put it in a pocket made from fabric Then sew or lace the Thing to the backside of your do. To replace or was pull it out. I made one with grommets so it laced in quickly and came out quickly
I used plastic barrel plates about 3 inches wide by the length of the back. Worked great.
Now as far as that funky smell Wash it with listerine. Yes listerine Gets rid of that funk smell
Do not start over Do not relace Add to what you have
And wear a padded gi
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 17, 2011 12:22:11 GMT -5
Thank you, gentlemen.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Mar 17, 2011 23:20:38 GMT -5
I had someone hit me a few times tonight to figure out how this is going to hold up in fighting. As it turns out, you all were right: I'm not going to want to wear this without padding. I'll be making something out of gambeson padding material to wear underneath it; I'll either be making it to a manchira pattern or make a more traditional gambeson to hide underneath my kosode. I am also likely to use gambeson padding instead of burlap in the cloth panel that goes underneath my sode for similar reasons.
If I do this again, there will be shiki involved. On the other hand, the next time may be a riveted plate kit out of aluminum instead. We'll see.
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