Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jul 23, 2011 1:05:20 GMT -5
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 23, 2011 8:50:39 GMT -5
Look again, no it isnt. The one on the Tokyo website is a totally different theme. It too is a patchwork kimono, however it is different from the 2 I posted. The one I posted is mostly a floral and duck theme, the one on the Tokyo website is scrolls, floral, and bridges So, now we have 3 examples of period patchwork kimono.
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Post by Noriko on Jul 23, 2011 10:43:26 GMT -5
Huh, well, color me surprised. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 23, 2011 10:51:36 GMT -5
The Momoyama period is my strongest of periods for costuming I'm super excited to have shared something new with you guys. I have other projects I am working on, and those will also be equally as documented. My major project that does already have some documentation and information to cite is that kabuki is in fact period. But here and now isn't the place. Have you ladies yet seen a nagoya obi? They came from china and were a smash hit among artists and other interesting characters of the Momoyama. The nagoya is silly easy to make / get a hold of to wear.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jul 23, 2011 11:00:06 GMT -5
I plead lack of sleep due to hot flashes. (It's been a really rotten week. Do not test me. My patience is not up to it right now.)
I never claimed to be infallible.
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
Posts: 276
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 23, 2011 11:11:06 GMT -5
You gals have not done anything wrong, if anything its great to share and educate. I got my knowledge tested and passed with what I assume are flying colors . I'm the only Japanese persona around here for almost 100+ miles, it's nice to have folks to talk to. And yea, wow the heat is brutal! 105 yesterday here.
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Post by Noriko on Jul 23, 2011 17:04:54 GMT -5
Have you ladies yet seen a nagoya obi? They came from china and were a smash hit among artists and other interesting characters of the Momoyama. The nagoya is silly easy to make / get a hold of to wear. I've heard that Nagoya obi were an early 20th century invention, or so says Wikipedia (which cites Dalby). The same article does note there was an earlier obi also called a Nagoya but it was "cord like". But yeah, drooooool....... Where did you get such lovely kimono and so easily?
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jul 23, 2011 17:49:30 GMT -5
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 23, 2011 18:08:41 GMT -5
There are 2 kinds of nagoya obi. One is modern, one is historical. The nagoya is period to Momoyama, perhaps late but still period. Amusingly, if I am recalling properly it was originally Chinese or Korean and brought to Japan by the early traders.
The nagoya was worn by artists and other types. It was not strictly a courtesan obi.
As for where I get my Japanese kimono, I import them in mass from Japan for American resale. I literally have stacks of crates full.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jul 23, 2011 19:06:15 GMT -5
Kimiko-hime, If you insist on not defining "other types" or "interesting characters" I am going to insist on inferring that you mean denizens of the demimonde. That Snooty Kuge Chick
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 24, 2011 14:06:52 GMT -5
BTW, here are more photo examples of patchwork kimono. These women are the early cult followers who would later found kabuki. They are period. Ill talk about kabuki and its early founding later...that being said they are wearing patchworks. These women would have low ranking members of society - as the early followers of Izumo no Okuni were the undesirables of society. I would talk more about Kabuki and its early days that are period, but I do not want to derail this thread. For those curious, yes I have sources and citations about kabuki making it period in its early days. One of these women are also wearing nagoya obi - Ill dig around later through my books and toss up some citations and direct info. I'm currently at a Baronial meeting, making this response quick ..short..and sweet. Either way, check out these fabulous ladies.
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 24, 2011 15:39:07 GMT -5
An important element to period kosode is obviously there collar. I have seen many wide and different examples of period collars for the Momoyama patchwork style. Some tailors just cut the collar for the patchwork, others seem to mix and match collars. I've seen 2 color collars a few other examples (see the first momoyama kosode I posted, it has the 2 color split collar, thus this collar style is period for momoyama). I opted for a fun 2 color half half collar - perhaps my persona didnt have a whole single collar to make one with and salvage 2 different ones? Maybe she just likes the wild look of it and it plays well to her personality? Either way at this point I have to deal with the collar. The modern kimono collar is not period. It is generally made from 2 pieces of fabric, broken in form and line while the kosode -normally- is just one long form. There are period examples of the collar also being a checker board patchwork style too. I think the half half is nice..though I might just checker board it later on... Either way I strip the collars off and then break them down into their single piece form. This gives me more them ample fabric to make a collar from. Step 1 : strip the collar. You have to find the ends within the single collar. Step 2 - collar stripped, set aside the smaller of the two as backup fabric for other projects or patchwork. Step 3 - repeat the process to the other collar..since the patchwork kosode is made from 2 modern kimono you should have 2 collars to strip. You can just leave the collars in place and cut them along with the kimono, but that is not the look I wanted. Step 4 - place and consider your new collar and layout. Since the left goes over top the right I wanted the bright red collar the most visible. It looks just looks fun. I am going to have to cut these collars in half and join them....but we are getting ahead of ourselves. In this photo you can see that I gently folded back the sleeve to start to get a generic kosode sleeve for the sake of getting a better mental picture. Modifying the sleeves to form will be the VERY last step. More soon I hope you are as excited about this project as I am
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 24, 2011 16:12:48 GMT -5
So..more progress and thoughts. I cut the "torso" part of the kimono in half to slice in the new patchwork. I then laid out the forming kosode and paused to reflect on my options. cutting the torso is a great area for you to adjust the future kosode to your individual height..adding or taking away at the shoulders and sleeves to keep it scale to a taller or shorter body. *Here is the torso part cut... *Below are my 2 finished kosode design options. I really like the green bottom version and will be going with it. I'm going to satin stitch crickets onto the green part, along with cricket cages. Yes, satin stitch is period, just not called satin stitch. I own many great modern books on the history and style about Japanese kimono embroidery that are really inspiring and highly detailed. When I combine the 2 kimono into 1 patchwork, I am going to pin them center back seem and them get them to match perfect in side by reducing seams until they perfectly match one another. These two were very close in width so I should not have to reduce much. Now lets see if I can get this finished in time for the Midrealm Coronation being hosted here....
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Lady Kimiko
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I'm busy making tea bowls these days.
Posts: 276
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Post by Lady Kimiko on Jul 24, 2011 17:07:13 GMT -5
Everything is now cut..now to begin to assemble. I am going to begin with attaching the sleeves since they are the easiest of the attachments to do.
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Post by Please Delete on Jul 24, 2011 19:49:14 GMT -5
These women would have low ranking members of society - as the early followers of Izumo no Okuni were the undesirables of society. I would talk more about Kabuki and its early days that are period, but I do not want to derail this thread. For those curious, yes I have sources and citations about kabuki making it period in its early days. I think there was something on this in another thread on the board, but I'd have to search--still, feel free to start up a new thread on it. The question I have is: What *was* kabuki under Okuni? From what I've seen, there is a question as to how close it was to modern kabuki; given the low-class nature of artisans and theater in general, combined with the unsavory reputation that it garnered (iirc, women were barred from the stage--rightly or wrongly--because actresses, particularly in kabuki, were considered rather scandalous). I've seen some scholars put kabuki actresses on a level beneath geisha, but above regular prostitutes; as my wife points out, they fit into that entire class of entertainers who sometimes slept with their clients. Kabuki actresses did not really attract the higher ranking patrons, however (and kabuki continued to be a rather vulgar, comic version of the theater, in contrast with the more high-brow theater of noh, into the Edo period). Regrettably, that doesn't assist the reputation of the Nagoya obi. I believe the main question on that is when the Nagoya obi was adopted by upper class women; I suspect it was something that was adopted first by the various courtesans and similar elements and later used by more respectable women. Do we have evidence otherwise?
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