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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Aug 29, 2014 19:24:21 GMT -5
Greetings all, Finally after moving 5 times in the last 5 years, my wife and I are finally getting to the point where we can do sca things. Now, I am new to the sca, while my wife grew up playing 14th century English in the barony Caer Antherth Maur. The problem is that she is under the impression that the Japanese garb does not suit her body type, and she will not be able to run around after our three children. So, we were thinking that she could play a European. Another problem is that I want to portray a samurai in the sengoku era, while she wants to play in an era the marriage of a Japanese to a European would be plausible. So I'm asking the community for any thoughts and suggestions anyone might have. I was also wondering if there is a name that translates to the smiling one, or the one who smiles. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks so much,
Luke
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
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The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Aug 29, 2014 23:02:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry overly much about your personas "matching". While it can be nice, SCA is a game where Landesknecht fight and drink with Roman Legionnaires. An old and dear friend of mine, who has always recreated an Elizabethan fool, started out in an Heroic-era Norse household. My lady is currently generic early period European, whilst she finds a persona that suits her. Our daughters seem most interested in periods that will clothe them in what they perceive to be "princess" dresses, which means Renaissance Europe.
It irks some people, but it is one of my favorite things about the SCA. Do what you love, with the people you love, and revel in the richness of experience and learning that can open the doors to. Frequently an offhand remark can elicit a detailed and esoteric history lesson.
We are an educational society, after all.
A quick perusal of indexes of Solveig-dono's book, Name Construction in Medieval Japan, turned up nothing for smiling. I did find on p.181 the Surname Fukumitsu, Fuku = Happy/Blessed, Mitsu = Bright/Shining.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Aug 30, 2014 11:04:14 GMT -5
1. As stated by Mega-dono, you do not have to "match." 2. You're not *in* medieval or Renaissance Europe, you're in an SCA Kingdom in which people of various periods and cultures rub elbows! (I find the "You're ALL foreign barbarians" mindset works well for me as long as I don't say it out loud.) 3. Contact between Japan and the West as we know it dates to the 1540s. Are you going to convert to Christianity so you can marry a namban lady? Is your lady going to deal with chasing small children in 16th century Portuguese/Spanish clothing? 4. As for Japanese dress not suiting body type, I'm going to leave this here. www.wodefordhall.com/samurai.htm
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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Aug 30, 2014 14:59:32 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses. Another question, my lady is interested in heavy weapons fighting, so I know what she...
So "his lady" is going to cut in briefly. I was thinking Silk Road type period - which I know runs very, very early; around 200 BC to 600(ish?)AD and picks up again after the 1400s. So I was thinking possible Roman for me. But I need to do more research. My Lord does not wish to make armor in that period - he likes the stuff around the 1500s. I would quite happily do very early Italian or Roman garb but no - Spanish garb has never appealed to me. I'm at best, an impatient seamstress and my Lord laments that I'll ever happily sew him hakama. I grew up in bog-dresses, cotehardies, and bodice/skirt/chemise combinations (which my mom made for me). I'm rather well endowed so I settled happily on the bodice as it provided a lot of support and I am used to running around in a full skirt. I'm not a very genteel lady - preferring gentlemanly pursuits such as archery, fencing, and horseback riding. The hakama look wonderfully easy to move in. However - I've had bad luck with the kosode staying closed...which is why I'm so resistant to wearing them. I don't in particular want to have to wear a safety pin or to be sewed into my costume. So there you have it. Right from the horse's mouth.
Back to you babe... as I was saying, I know what she should wear while fighting, but what would a female samurai wear to court, or in general. Thanks,
Luke
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Imagawa Tomoe
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You know what really sucks? Realizing you stitched a french seam backwards. >.<
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Post by Imagawa Tomoe on Aug 31, 2014 5:06:56 GMT -5
Hello, Miss "Luke's Lady". As someone who is learning to make robes at the moment, I can probably relate and may be able to offer some help in the whole Closing the Robe and Keeping It There department. What particular areas are you having problems with in keeping it closed? I can say that wearing hakama or nagabakama with a kosode (small-sleeved robe)really helps in keeping it closed. It's like extra enforcement.
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Post by solveig on Aug 31, 2014 9:40:26 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I was thinking Silk Road type period - which I know runs very, very early; around 200 BC to 600(ish?)AD and picks up again after the 1400s. Since the Polos visited China during the 13th century, I would expect the silk road to be very much in operation during the 1200's as well. Going the other direction, Rabban Bar Sauma started in Northeastern China and wound up lecturing at the University of Paris and meets Edward I in Gascony in 1288. Ibn Battuta started in Morocco and went just about everywhere including China during the 1300's. So, I would expect a LOT of "silk road" activity during the 1200's and 1300's. Incidentally, if you have not already done so, please consider "window shopping" for clothing at the Costume Museum. Click on "Costume History of Japan". The costumes are arranged roughly chronologically. The Edo period #4 and the Meiji period #5 are both after 1600 and are therefore post-period. The other stuff is period. The stuff marked Kamakura period - Azuchi-Momoyama period starts ca 1185 and ends ca 1600. The Heian period is ca 794 to ca 1185.
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Post by Please Delete on Aug 31, 2014 10:58:24 GMT -5
Going the other direction, Rabban Bar Sauma started in Northeastern China and wound up lecturing at the University of Paris and meets Edward I in Gascony in 1288. Ibn Battuta started in Morocco and went just about everywhere including China during the 1300's. So, I would expect a LOT of "silk road" activity during the 1200's and 1300's. To emphasize this point, Rome estimated 6,000 Roman Catholics in cities in China in the early 1300s, when a delegation of 16 members traveled to Rome to ask for a new archbishop (apparently led by a Westerner, according to the records--I've read modern sources that specifically said they were Genoese, but I don't know about that). They went back with a new archbishop and a total delegation of 32. The "Silk Road" was open since Roman times. The Han Dynasty knew of Rome; there was a brief breakdown during the Chaos of the multi-kingdom periods in China, but stuff still got through. Chang'an, in the Sui and Tang dynasties, was one of the most cosmopolitan places on earth: the tomb of Empress Wu has ostriches carved in stone, and Persian fashion was all the rage (FYI: We have what appears to be a Persian trader as a Haniwa statue in Japan). During that time, there seems to have still been trade out to the Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Byzantine Empire). Though Jewish traders appear to have been quite active in the 10th century from France to China, there were breaks during various periods of unrest. The Mongols really opened things back up in the 1200s, but then in 1368 the Ming dynasty cast out all the foreigners, which put another pause until the 15th century explorers. The big thing about the European "Age of Exploration" was that it didn't collapse after the trade networks were established, and the speed and frequency of contact appears to have greatly increased--likely because the ocean trade routes were less susceptible to political changes in any given nation along the way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 14:33:58 GMT -5
I've had bad luck with the kosode staying closed...which is why I'm so resistant to wearing them. I don't in particular want to have to wear a safety pin or to be sewed into my costume. As a stop-gap measure ( ), don't use one safety pin, use two. Pin the ends of the overlaps to the body panels using one pin for each side. This eliminates the obvious and unattractive center pin. If you're careful, you can do this from the inside and make it nearly invisible, or do it down near the waist where the pins will be hidden by the obi or hakama himo. If you are wearing more than one layer of kosode, just pin the white layer you put on first and the other layers will hide the pins just fine. You can also add ties to the kosode like you'd see on a hippari. Though the hippari is not a period garment. This image, jgarb-hippari-blk.jpg, shows the location of one pair of ties and there is a corresponding pair for the other overlap and seam. Modern Japanese women sometimes use a " Korin belt", an elastic band that clips onto one overlap, passes across the back and out the gap under the arm, and clips onto the other overlap.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Aug 31, 2014 18:21:04 GMT -5
If the lady doesn't wish to wear Japanese clothing, how about we stop making suggestions on how she can wear Japanese clothing? What a boring old world it would be if we all did the same thing!
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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Aug 31, 2014 23:15:02 GMT -5
I am hoping to convince my lady to play japanese with me, so any suggestions that make it easier to do so are appreciated. But, if I can't convince her, that will be okay too.
Question: what would be the best garb to make her for more informal wear. Garb she can wear around an event all day, work in the kitchen with, and run around after three children in?
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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Aug 31, 2014 23:25:31 GMT -5
A kosode and mobakama?
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Aug 31, 2014 23:39:28 GMT -5
bit.ly/1pyMZMTRight, this (click link at the top of this post) is me in a linen under-kosode held closed with a strip of bias tape and my sleeves tied back with another piece.* Over that is a second linen kosode tied around my waist with my obi - works well for warm conditions and active situations. I was teaching a taiko class at Great Western War when this was taken by Esmeralda of the Lakes. Kosode can be very informal if done in less formal fabrics. Like this one. Sadly the fabric was of unknown fiber content and has not worn well, which is a shame, because I loved the colors. Stripes and plaids are a great way to go. I have a plaid one I practically live in at camping events, shown here with a top layer worn open like a coat (you'll recognize it from the first picture.) You can see the white under-layer peeping through at the collar. *This video shows how to tie up one's sleeves: I think the reason I haven't had serious issues with things slipping open - as you can see, I'm not exactly a small person - is that I build my kosode big enough that they wrap all the way to the opposite hip. Each layer gets anchored by either a himo (strip of bias tape) long enough to go around my waist twice before being tied off OR an obi. I find that if the obi or himo are wrapped around twice, they have less of a tendency to slip.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 1, 2014 0:06:08 GMT -5
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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Sept 1, 2014 0:27:04 GMT -5
Is the mobakama supposed to be open on the sides? Or wrap around without any gaps? Unfortunately there aren't any museum pictures from the sides.
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Post by Fukumitsu Noriatsu on Sept 1, 2014 0:31:45 GMT -5
Or are they built like hakama, but without being separated into legs?
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