Bellflower Mon

[Kagami Tomoko]

Hi folks,

I can't recall if I have posted this here yet but, here goes. After learning that the mon I was using within the SCA was/is a copywrited company logo in Japan, and that the company aggressively protects the design, I decided it was a good idea not to get sued and to just switch it out with another design. Plus, I have always wanted to take a stab at creating my own based on existing sources! Using the book Japanese Design Motifs translated by Fumie Adachi as a point of inspiration and research, I think I've landed on a design.



The design uses the Japanese Bellflower in triplicate bent in a circle. The background is purple as a nod to the flower's actual color where as the ordinaries are white. The difficulty, as you might imagine, is how to blazon the darn thing using SCA heraldic speak. Can anyone lend a hand on this front? Here's my attempt:

Purpure, three bellflowers slipped in roundel argent

[solveig]

This would be the defining instance of the bellflower in SCA heraldry. Fortunately, bellflowers grow in Europe, so there is a chance of getting it. The College of Arms will probably rule that bellflowers conflict with some other kind of flower and not give them their own class.

[Kagami Tomoko]

Solveig, thanks for your thoughts!

Feb 16, 2015 12:08:15 GMT -5 solveig said:

This would be the defining instance of the bellflower in SCA heraldry.

So what you're saying is, I better submit quickly?  haha! I guess I'm a little curious and unsure why you think  it would be the defining instance within the society. Couldn't other players use bellflowers in different orientations? For example, multiple flowers on one stem, not slipped, shown proper, etc?

Feb 16, 2015 12:08:15 GMT -5 solveig said:

Fortunately, bellflowers grow in Europe, so there is a chance of getting it.

One reason I chose the bellflower was that it had European and Japanese ties, thus making it easier to pass. However, even if it wasn't found in Europe, couldn't I employ the "one step rule" by calling them out as "three Japanese Bellflowers"? Should I take that step now in order to differentiate the design?

Feb 16, 2015 12:08:15 GMT -5 solveig said:

The College of Arms will probably rule that bellflowers conflict with some other kind of flower and not give them their own class.

I understand that other flowers and arrangements have had conflicts in past (ie: the rose) but isn't that in part with the coloring and representation? I haven't submitted yet but if push comes to shove, is there a way of contesting a flower class ruling with the College of Arms? (dare I say, a Supreme Court of Heralds?)

All that said, I appreciate the feedback. Do you have any comments on my "Purpure, three bellflowers slipped in roundel argent" attempt? Does it even look remotely accurate to you? Again, thanks for your time and thoughts.

[Ki no Kotori]

A bit late, but trying the "one-step" rule using "3 Japanese bellflowers" probably won't fly with the College of Heralds. I tried that with oak leaves--Japanese oak leaves actually do have a distinctly separate shape--and was told that unless I could prove that Japanese oaks grew in Europe pre-1600, the design could not be used. :-P

[Kagami Tomoko]

Mar 3, 2015 7:56:30 GMT -5 Ki no Kotori said:

A bit late, but trying the "one-step" rule using "3 Japanese bellflowers" probably won't fly with the College of Heralds. I tried that with oak leaves--Japanese oak leaves actually do have a distinctly separate shape--and was told that unless I could prove that Japanese oaks grew in Europe pre-1600, the design could not be used. :-P

It's never too late and I appreciate the feedback! Ultimately, we'll see what the College of Heralds has to say, but it's worth giving it a try. What did you end up using? Did you just say "oak leaves" and live with the interpretation clause or did you decide to go with another design that could be used in both Europe pre-1600 and Japan?

[solveig]

Technically, you are supposed to be able to use plants and animals (and especially animals) if you can demonstrate that they were known to Europeans before 1601. That is why we have all of those hummingbirds and other exotic animals in SCA heraldry. As for the return of the Japanese maple, was that returned at kingdom or by Laurel? Could you document the tree being known? If so, did you consider appealing the decision?

[Ki no Kotori]

It was the Japanese oak, actually, not the maple. They didn't like the way I drew the design, until I showed them a picture of what Japanese Oak leaves look like, and then they pulled the "not known in Europe" card, which to my mind is complete BS.

The mon design was for my husband, who decided it wasn't worth fighting the COH. Mundane life got busy for us around that time (job transfers/moving does that!) and I never got around to trying to design another one for him. He rarely has time for SCA anymore and prefers to use his Norse persona when he does show up, so I just dropped the matter.