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Post by Please Delete on Mar 11, 2005 0:39:15 GMT -5
Another way to look at it:
a) If I wear a codpiece in Italian Ren with white ties, is that similar?
b) Would a tunic with a white stripe around the waist be considered the same thing because 'it looks like a belt' (since it encircles the waist)?
Just some musings. I think it has more to do with what people think it is than what it actually is, unfortunately.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 11, 2005 6:50:03 GMT -5
Does anyone here have any opposition to making it the custom of the members of this board to equate hakama ties with "belt" for the purpose of showing rank in the SCA? ::raises hand:: I would be opposed to making it custom, hakama ties are not a belt, they are an integral piece to the garment. To make a "custom" makes it sound somehow "offical" and I would have a big problem with an offical judgement on the color of my pants cords. -Takeda Sanjuichiro |
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Mar 11, 2005 8:08:26 GMT -5
From an historical point of view, I would rather see the hakama ties that should be white, allowed to be white, regardless of rank, but I believe that will not happen in the SCA.
I know some Knights who would rather see something authentically portrayed than not, and I know other Knights who would be miffed at white hakama ties, thnking them presumptuous.
Truth be told, the SCA has gotten to the point where every color of belt is taken by someone or some order or the other, and those "Gangs" who see you wearing their "Gang Color" can sometimes get miffy.
I finnd this odd, to say the least - I tend to follow the practice of making the hakama belts of the same fabric, or a complimenting fabric as the pants.
The one exception I make to this, is an all white hakama and suikan. I see no need to defend the himo of the hakama in that case.
Date
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 11, 2005 8:34:53 GMT -5
Agreed, white hakama ties on white hakama don't seem to cause people any grief, that I've seen. I have worn it without even thinking (to me, it was just white pants) and nobody said a word. I doubt it would be the same if I had a white belt on over white pants.
Unfortunately, I don't know how often white kamishimo were made--especially daimon hitatare kamishimo.
Suo hitatare seem to bend the general rule and may use koshi-himo of the same color, or matching color, of the rest of the fabric, so that's another period option for you.
-Ii
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Post by OgamiBusho on Mar 11, 2005 15:09:37 GMT -5
As long as it doesn't look like a belt, I don't think anyone would have any problems. But if it could be interpreted as a belt, even casually....
Well, I'm pretty damned touchy about it. Hell, I'm still cranky about the whole 'white scarf' thing.
(Warning- Useless opinion to follow-)
Generally speaking, knights are very protective of the symbols of knighthood. Yes, there is some pride involved in it, no question. And there are some very nice perks that come with being a knight, like authority and power.
But the fact of the matter is that a good deal of the job can be difficult and at times downright unpleasant. (When things go wrong no one calls for a Laurel.)
A lot is expected from a knight. If you don't meet the expectations of whoever happens to be standing around at that moment, you've tarnished the chivalry as a whole and negatively impacted the perception of knighthood to the person himself.
I don't want to go off on a rant here. I tell this (and a lot more) to everyone who sits vigil. But there is a reason why knights are sensitive to the whole 'might be a white belt' issue, and I think it would be wise to err on the side of caution.
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 11, 2005 15:39:52 GMT -5
Out of curiosity: is it people who wear something that could be construed as a white belt, or people who do it to get around the rules?
I do have a problem with people doing it for the latter reason, and realize that it is pretty difficult to tell what the intent of the person is, most of the time.
-Ii
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