Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 5, 2005 20:52:29 GMT -5
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Post by Nagamochi on Jun 6, 2005 2:04:43 GMT -5
Wipes drool from chin and picks up jaw I must get one of those 100 inch wide parasols for WW so my servant/s can carry it over me at merchants row. All of them are so beautiful I have a major urge to compose a tanka about them. Unfortunately, the lady sitting in the corner with that "thousand ri stare" sharpening her handmand tanto is frightening me.
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Post by Ishikawa Yoshimasa on Jun 6, 2005 21:41:19 GMT -5
whoa that is 100 inch RADIUS... over 16.5 feet in diameter... please tell me you don't plan to walk merchant row with that <G> on the other hand they are some lovely pieces and the 50inch model would do the job nicely for saeveral people... definatly going to have to make a point of bookmarking those sites.
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Post by Nagamochi on Jun 7, 2005 1:14:53 GMT -5
whoa that is 100 inch RADIUS... over 16.5 feet in diameter... please tell me you don't plan to walk merchant row with that <G> Like I've said before, the oxcart construction will have to wait til next year, so the 100 inch parasol will have to do for this year so as to make a dramatic/overly-dramatic presence. Besides, camping on the WW equivalent to the Sahara, an umbrella that wide planted in the ground would be much welcomed.
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Post by Volk'abe on Jun 18, 2005 20:50:03 GMT -5
At one time during my research a few years ago I heard something about how parasols could only be carried by women. Is this true enough for people to be picky about this or next Lillie's can I carry one?
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 18, 2005 22:02:09 GMT -5
Go to page 5 of the thread on Heian Gender Bending in Wafuku - I'd posted some Edo period art showing men with parasols.
M.
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Post by Volk'abe on Jun 19, 2005 1:47:42 GMT -5
Thank you, he even manages to still look manly. I also see a man carrying a folding fan (sensu?), excellent that would have helped a lot at Lillie's... Now, about hats... The steeply pointed straw one I have been in love with for years. I think I may have located a source but my research into them has pointed me to a site that said only women wear them, that's ok since I see that I can use a parasol, but the hat is just too cool to walk away from...
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Post by Volk'abe on Jun 19, 2005 1:53:15 GMT -5
Also, while we are talking unusual items in garb... I remember a lot of images of monks and one of a samurai monk, wearing what seemed to be large white beads as a baldric. One source I thought was reliable, Armies of the World, I think it was called, showed a samurai in minimal armor and wearing a set of these beads, it mentioned that he was a Budist monk and that was why he wore them. It also showed a foot solder wearing something similar but it was his rice rations in cloth around his shoulders. Did these beads exist and were they appropriate for 11th-12th century? I thought Budism was one of the earlier religeons and I think it was there before Shinto... Anyway, enough rambling and I hope I spelled everything right...
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Post by Nagamochi on Jun 19, 2005 2:47:12 GMT -5
Konnichi-wa Elecwolf-dono!
On the subject of Buddism, I'm by no means an expert. Though if memory serves me right, the beads you mention are not a baldric, but actually prayer beads. Just think of an oversized rosary if that helps. Buddism appeared in Japan after Shinto, since Shinto was the local, dare I say pagan, religion of Japan. But don't fret! I'm fairly sure the beads are appropriate for the 11-12th centuries, considering I've seen them in early Indian texts, and one must remember that Buddism came from there.
Hope this helps some Nagamochi
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Post by Please Delete on Jun 19, 2005 9:46:41 GMT -5
The 'Ju' beads (Nenju, or also Juzu) are a type of Buddhist rosary--although using the term 'rosary' may be misleading as it is not derived, as far as I can tell from the Christian practice. Rather, what limited knowledge I have on the subject would suggest that it was a practice in the region of India and Persia, as it travelled from the Middle East to Europe, at least in the East.
Then again, it arose spontaneously in Ireland, it seems, so even the Persian and Indian beads could be parallel developments.
Either way, it came to Japan with Buddhism, and you see people wearing it, even into battle.
Later on, you see some really large 'beads' and I believe there is still contention about what they are. Some people have said that these are just large juzu, exaggerated for combat. In other cases, I've read that they were bags of rice--each one carrying a single day's rations. Another thought is that they are the packs of gunpowder for the ashigaru who fire the teppo (matchlocks). I'm not sure which. The matchlocks makes sense to me, and I've seen some that are obviously large juzu for effect--but that was for higher stationed bushi who could afford custom armours (and probably didn't have to worry about being on the front lines and having it ruined).
-Ii
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 19, 2005 12:26:58 GMT -5
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 19, 2005 12:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Jun 19, 2005 17:35:58 GMT -5
...Later on, you see some really large 'beads' and I believe there is still contention about what they are....I've read that they were bags of rice--each one carrying a single day's rations... From my understanding the large ones (tangerine to grapefruit) size are bags of rice or other provisions. the golfball sized ones are examples of big beads. With the exception of sappers carying soft sided charges no army, Japan included carried their powder in cloth bags, on the field or off. The potential for disaster is way to high. A single ember, like say from the guy firing over your shoulder, would instantly reward you with the honor of self -immolation. Also natural cloth is notorious at attracting moisture from the air, another bad thing when working with powder. The tradition of working with powder in Japan predates the guns, I am certain that they would not have made the mistake, at least more than once. Ii-dono I commend your rightous fervor to attain the Pure Land, and to achive enlightenment... But please stand downrange of me in the ranks. *wink*
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Post by Please Delete on Jun 19, 2005 17:44:21 GMT -5
...The matchlocks makes sense to me... Ii-dono I commend your rightous fervor to attain the Pure Land, and to achive enlightenment... But please stand downrange of me in the ranks. *wink* Another reason to have the expendable... I mean comendable... services of a large group of ashigaru to work with such dangerous weapons... Seriously, the comment on attracting moisture makes a lot of sense, and I hadn't considered it before. What is it that the various gunners have along the baldric in the wood or tin containers, though? Is that powder or is it shot or is it something else? Also, I'm still wondering about the rice. I can't recall where I've read it, and don't know if we have extant examples. When I finish my exechequer duties today I may have to go through my books and see what I can find. -Ii
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Post by Volk'abe on Jun 19, 2005 18:18:54 GMT -5
Wow. Thank you all. I've always been a fan of the monk look but I'll skip the blindness... Also, it could be interesting, after looking at the monk link, of asking for a donation of spare material for making the Kesa from people I tell stories too. It could be a very fun tradition and make for a memorable garb.
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