kenshiro
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Dad, newbie armourer, SCA fighter
Posts: 67
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Post by kenshiro on Jun 7, 2005 11:11:17 GMT -5
Greetings !! I am looking for a source for patterns and a run down of what a Sohei would wear while on campagin.. Both under and over there armour..
Mainly a fellow from the Minamoto-Taira conflict..
Also was Benkei an officer in the army or was he more of a military advisor of sorts ??
I also picked up a book, "Samurai the Warrior class of Japan", can anyone tell me if this is a good referance point...
Thanks !!
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Jun 7, 2005 12:00:58 GMT -5
Greetings !! I am looking for a source for patterns and a run down of what a Sohei would wear while on campagin.. Both under and over there armour.. Mainly a fellow from the Minamoto-Taira conflict.. Some of it would depend on where you were from (sect/temple) and your associated wealth, or the wealth of a patron to the temple. In scrolls I have seen sohei wearing anything from fundoshi and little else, all the way up to oyoroi. the good Baron might be albe to provide better or more insight, but for SCA use I would go with a nice haramaki, possibly one with the full leather covering. (appropriate for retainer grade armors) Over that one would wear a dofuku (that might be a latter term, I'm refering to the thin black, loose overrobe used by most monks). At that time period it seems kote were made for one arm only, and from the scrolls/screens it does not seem like retainers wore the kote much anyhow. Knowing that you make be able to get by with a set of un-obtrusive western arms. For headgear a unobtrusive western helmet suitably disguized with the cowl would work. I'm not sure what sort of leg protection would be best, maybe someone else has resources on hand with them... (My memory is a bit fuzzy on the legs) My understanding of it is he was a personal friend of Yoshitsune, and he was a well respected man in many regards. He may not have had a proper court rank, but he was a personal retainer of Yoshitsune and acted in his behalf. (then again Benkei might have thought of Yoshitsune as *HIS* personal retainer...) You might consider Benkei in the light of Aristotle to Alexander, friend, mentor, confidant, bodyguard.
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kenshiro
New Member
Dad, newbie armourer, SCA fighter
Posts: 67
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Post by kenshiro on Jun 7, 2005 13:17:12 GMT -5
Excellent info !! Thanks for the help friend...
I am still figuring out what temple/wealth level I will portray...
Anyone know where I can find a pattern for the head cowl ??
Thanks again !! JJ
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Jun 7, 2005 14:38:03 GMT -5
Excellent info !! Thanks for the help friend... Not a problem Regardless of your wealth though, a decent kit might have been donated to the temple (common), provided to you by a particular lord that has taken a liking to you (not uncommon), you are a mentor/teacher to a young lordling who has asked for you to accompany him on campaign, so he equipped you (also not uncommon). In short there are a number of very plausable reasons for you to have a decent kit. Well... the costume museum www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/32.htm lists the headpiece as kato no kesa, which has two parts, the kesa no igi, and the kesa no koigi. From some other pictures I found on the web (google searches) it appears they are constructed in a quilted manner like normal kesa, for all I know they may be small white kesa simply tied to the head. I have not been aple to come up with a proper pattern for one either. Anyone else have better luck?
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 7, 2005 21:01:31 GMT -5
I'm going to preface this by saying I do not know if I am right, however, Jehanne has been known to wear a veil. Anyway, the Costume Museum photo looks to me like it could be as simple as a or rectangle of fabric draped over the head, tied in place with a headband and then draped around the neck to cover the face.
M.
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qworg
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Posts: 32
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Post by qworg on Jun 18, 2005 4:35:14 GMT -5
The double fabric method (headband and draped cowl wrapped around the face) is most likely how I am going to do my first kato no kesa. There are several interesting drawings in "Secrets of the Samurai" by Ratti and Westbrook - I have no idea if these are just artistic interpretations or what, but there are more than a few methods of covering your "unarmored" head.
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Post by Please Delete on Jun 18, 2005 5:40:25 GMT -5
Do not trust ANY of the drawings in "Secrets of the Samurai". I can't recall seeing anything that didn't look like either fantastical depictions, or the artist didn't really care, so they lack details, and could easily have bits in the wrong place. That is one of the more infamous sources of bad information for actual history.
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qworg
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by qworg on Jun 18, 2005 7:41:49 GMT -5
Then I won't.
Are Turnbull's books reputable? If not, where else should I be looking?
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Post by Please Delete on Jun 18, 2005 21:53:38 GMT -5
Turnbull's stuff tends to vary, especially with when he wrote it. His later stuff seems pretty reliable, but some of his earlier stuff has rather big holes in it. He does have an overexaggerated opinion of the Japanese sword, iirc.
The drawings and illustrations are usually pretty good. Most of the drawings seem to come from actual period sources, so in general I would trust them, although I wouldn't use it as documentation.
-Ii
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qworg
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by qworg on Jun 19, 2005 23:37:12 GMT -5
I have been searching for documentable sources for quite a long time - is there a list of good places to look? I haven't had access to a library with any kind of good Eastern Studies section, especially in English.
Thanks!
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Post by wbf on Jul 5, 2005 7:43:09 GMT -5
Greetings !!!
Well I have taken a few first steps towards getting my kit together for a Sohei... My lovely wife has sown a Kosode for me and we are moving onto a kimomno soon..
I picked up the Osprey book.. "Japanese Warrior Monks 696 to 1605 " ... In that book it says monks wore simple trousers, now does that mean hakama ?? or an actual pants ??
I also wanted to check to see if my clothing layering is correct.. I goes lioncloth, white kosode, white trouser, brown kimono, black over jacket ... Is this correct ??
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jul 5, 2005 8:30:17 GMT -5
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qworg
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Posts: 32
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Post by qworg on Jul 5, 2005 11:40:20 GMT -5
Greetings !!! Well I have taken a few first steps towards getting my kit together for a Sohei... My lovely wife has sown a Kosode for me and we are moving onto a kimomno soon.. I picked up the Osprey book.. "Japanese Warrior Monks 696 to 1605 " ... In that book it says monks wore simple trousers, now does that mean hakama ?? or an actual pants ?? I also wanted to check to see if my clothing layering is correct.. I goes lioncloth, white kosode, white trouser, brown kimono, black over jacket ... Is this correct ?? I believe that "simple trousers" means "two piece hakama" - the very simple style. The monk in the Costume Museum wears something a little different - the actual vestments under his armor. And your order is right. Fundoshi, kosode 1, hakama, kosode 2, thin gauzy overrobe.
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Post by wbf on Jul 5, 2005 16:14:43 GMT -5
Excellent !!!!
I will beg the wife to start sowing up some more kosodes...
Thanks for the help ya'll !!!
PS: this is Kenshiro by the way....
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qworg
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by qworg on Jul 6, 2005 0:17:24 GMT -5
I believe that "simple trousers" means "two piece hakama" - the very simple style. The monk in the Costume Museum wears something a little different - the actual vestments under his armor. And your order is right. Fundoshi, kosode 1, hakama, kosode 2, thin gauzy overrobe. Actually, he wears the vestments AND the hakama (kukuri-bakama). As listed on Effingham-dono's site:
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