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Post by mrcunningham on Aug 30, 2005 19:41:29 GMT -5
In the neverending quest to finish a whole do (what's with the folks calling it a "dou"?), i've discovered that the clothing comes together very quickly, even if it isn't as pretty or as impressive as the metal bits. therefore, the undergarments are all done, with "period" make, if not "period" material. comments and criticisms on how to do better next time would be lovely. the evidence against me:
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Aug 30, 2005 21:09:03 GMT -5
"Dou" is how the word is written in most Japanese-English dictionaries, or if you were using an operating system's Japanese software, such as Macs Kotoeri or Windows Japanese Input Method.
どう=胴
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Aug 30, 2005 22:00:05 GMT -5
comments and criticisms on how to do better next time would be lovely. The counterchanged trim on the manchira strikes my eye as odd. I'm not sure I've seen that done before. As do the frogs closures - a fancy closing for a hidden piece. The manchira I've seen have a partial 'split' up the back. Most have a collar piece (eri), although I did not add that to mine either - it would interfere with the guruwa. You might want to add ties from the 'left chest' to the 'left collar bone' pieces and similarly on the right. It helps prevent the piece from sliding around under your armour as you fight. I *think* you should be wearing a robe under the hitatare top - a kosode or maybe a shitagi or juban. The sleeves don't look square enough to me. Was this based on the sengokudaimyo.com pattern? www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html -> Underneath it all www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/hitatare.PDFBut ....................... They are cool looking garments. Its good to see some common blues and a great reminder that authenticity doesn't end (or begin) with the armour. Looking forward to your kote!
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Aug 30, 2005 22:01:45 GMT -5
And the 'ou' is the same as the 'oo' or the o with an overscore. It represents a 'two beat' vowel (one that is voiced twice as long as a one beat vowel).
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Post by Sakurai Takamori on Aug 31, 2005 0:05:29 GMT -5
For some reason, I'm not seeing any pictures with this... Takamori
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Post by mrcunningham on Aug 31, 2005 17:02:29 GMT -5
Otagiri,
I am in fact using the sengokudaimyo pattern. The hitatare sleeves are 3/4 as wide at the end as at the inner - armpit - opening, per the directions there. As for wearing an overgarment of some sort, i don't remember seeing anything mentioned on Mr. Bryant's site, but please correct me if i've more sewing in store. Oh, and about the poorly colored bias tape - i simply didn't have enough to go all black, but i thought the blue and black looked good together. The manchira is decidedly more simple than any i've seen in books or online research, but i just don't have the funds (or sewing skills, yet) to make my padding beautiful, silk, embroidered, collared, &c.
thanks to all for the helpful replies!
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Aug 31, 2005 17:27:40 GMT -5
As for wearing an overgarment of some sort, i don't remember seeing anything mentioned on Mr. Bryant's site, but please correct me if i've more sewing in store. Not an overgarment; the hitatare is an overgarment. I *think* you need an undergarment (kind of like your white t-shirt ). Hopefully, somebody who *knows* will chime in.
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Post by Please Delete on Aug 31, 2005 17:34:34 GMT -5
Armour is worn over the clothes. The clothes are:
Fundoshi Kosode Hitatare Hakama
(That should be from inside to outside)
Generally you will only ever see the hitatare, although it should close in the front (rather than coming straight down, as you have it in the photo, it should be at an angle so the two front pieces cross, probably just below the sternum or a little higher.)
Alternatively, you wear a shitagi (literally 'under clothing') which is often a much tighter sleeve. I think the shitagi was more popular by the time the manchira came along, but I'd have to go back and check to make sure that is right.
So, the hitatare (in this case a hitatare-kamishimo, since the top and bottom [hakama] match) is an outer garment, over top of which is then worn armour. Does that make sense? If you take off the armour, the hitatare is the overgarment.
-Ii
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on Aug 31, 2005 19:35:16 GMT -5
One point for future note:
Your shoulders slope -- they aren't parallel with the ground.
Your manchira should follow the line of your shoulders, not stand up like that.
Other than that -- like the hitatare particularly. Nice fabric. <GGGG>
Effingahm
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Post by Nagamochi on Sept 1, 2005 0:48:59 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do you have the sides of your hitatare open/unsewn under your arms alongside your ribcage, cunningham-dono? Silly me, I wear karaginu mo all the time, so beside a jimbei, I don't know of any nihon-jin outergarment that has open sides. Should those seams be closed?
My two sen, Nagamochi
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Sept 1, 2005 7:43:00 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do you have the sides of your hitatare open/unsewn under your arms alongside your ribcage....Should those seams be closed? No they are open... Most of the male overgarments are... here is a list: Akome, Hanpi, Hitatare, Hitoe, Hôi, Jikitotsu, Kachie, Kariginu, Kataginu, Ketteki no hô, Konôshi, Kyûtai, Motsuke koromo, Ôkatabira, Shitagasane, Soken, Suikan Also check out www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garb.html (mens garments) -Takeda
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Post by Nagamochi on Sept 1, 2005 23:53:01 GMT -5
Arigato Takeda-dono,
Though this now makes me curious, why such a difference for the sexes? Eh, nevermind, rhetorical question.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 2, 2005 13:47:27 GMT -5
Think about it, little sister. Think REAL hard.
Nice fabric for that hitatare, BTW.
An easy fix for the shoulders on the manchira - turn it inside out, put it on, have a helper pin the the shoulders to the natural slope, take it off, run a line of stitching, try it back on, then snip out the excess once you're sure of the fit.
Saionji
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Post by Nagamochi on Sept 3, 2005 0:46:37 GMT -5
Oh yeah, silly namban me. Repression, duh.... *banging head against computer desk* Nagamochi P.S. Slick idea on fixing the manchira, would work quite nicely.
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Post by mrcunningham on Sept 14, 2005 18:25:08 GMT -5
First:
Makiwara - Brilliant idea on the manchira fix. someday i'll make another - prettier - manchira, fix the pattern, and post it, but for now, that's genius.
Second:
I am, like many people, using Mr. Effingham's SengokuDaimyo site as pretty much my only source of instruction. He says, "If you plan to wear a manchira...the lining section is totally unnecessary, and even a nuisance." Presumably, here he is referring to the cloth or leather liner for the dou proper, but i'd like to confirm, as i'm planning on being done with my dou (at least breast and back) by the end of the month. the other way to read his statement is in reference to the kikko shoulder-padding. Which reading is correct, Oh Wys Ond Noble Myn Ond Womyn?
Cheers, Mr. Cunningham
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