Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Nov 6, 2005 21:23:23 GMT -5
I stumbled onto these by accident today: cwru.risukun.com/Node.aspx?id=14998&PageIndex=0Most of the photos are of the Kyoto Costume Museum's model of Genji's palace, with a few of the visitor and his family dressing up in Heian costumes, the lucky )#*@&%$^~! Enjoy, S.
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Post by Nagamochi on Nov 6, 2005 23:52:21 GMT -5
Wonderful pics. Now I know what trip I need to save my pennies for. Though two details of their clothes stood out to me as odd. Firstly, the mens' tops had "slashed" sleeves, which I could swear is post-Heian. Secondly, there seems to be excessive reveal between uchigi in the womens' karaginu, which if more than two inches/layer is seen, is likened to having your slip show. Am I completely out in left field on these? Please, enlighten me.
Domo Fujiwara no Man I Pay Too Much Attention to Detail
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Nov 7, 2005 1:29:01 GMT -5
If you mean that sexy gaps at the front of the sleeve to show off the layer beneath, they did that in the Heian period. It's kind of hard to see in this example, but there's a hint of red peeking out at the shoulders here: It just looks jarring when you put a kariginu on Dad over his plaid button-down. ;D Go look at the "Kuge Eye" section at www.wodefordhall.com/samurai.htm and you'll see the same gaps on the kariginu worn by Ii-dono and Takeda-dono, as well as the suikan worn by Takeda-dono and Date-dono). The "What, the curtains?" pic of Takeda-dono shows exactly where the sleeve attachment is on these things. Huh? Hem? Sleeve? Collar? Was it one of the dolls or one of the dressed visitors? Japanese concepts of feminine modesty and what is sexy aren't the same as ours. Summer attire in the women's quarters got downright transparent. Not sure what you mean or where you're going with this, so if you can reference a particular picture, it would help. Saionji
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Nov 7, 2005 11:15:09 GMT -5
Huh? Where do you see slashed sleeves?
I've not seen anything improper...
Effingham
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Nov 7, 2005 20:23:24 GMT -5
Baron Edward! Greetings from Solveig! Huh? Where do you see slashed sleeves? Maybe he is thinking of those robes with the semi-attached sleaves? I hope that he posts a picture of what he is talking about. I can not recall any instances of slashing or dagging in Japanese clothing. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
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Post by Nagamochi on Nov 7, 2005 21:56:44 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying my first question Big Sis. As for the karaginu deal, the dolls seem to be dressed impeccably, it's the TOURISTS (shoulda been my first clue) that are dressed on the dissheveled side. Now I just need to figure out how to make a western-style, button down collar in plaid and I'll be set.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Nov 7, 2005 23:46:05 GMT -5
Let's cut 'em some slack. I know how hard it is for ME to stay tidy on a good day. Wakarimasu ka K-Mart, silly? S.
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Post by Nagamochi on Nov 8, 2005 0:55:16 GMT -5
Hanae-wa Nihongo-ga wakarimasu-ka
Ii desu-ne!
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Nov 8, 2005 9:54:41 GMT -5
I'd've been much more impressed if the guy and his dad didn't have to stand for every photo with their hands across their bellies UNDER the damned kariginu.
They're taking commemorative photos, and the thing they do is slouch and assume the least elegant pose possible? Oy.
Effingham
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Post by chiaki on Nov 8, 2005 11:50:50 GMT -5
That looked like fun!
On the last picture on pg.2, "life-sized model", what is it that is stuffed into the kariginu?
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Nov 8, 2005 12:12:33 GMT -5
Paper and his ceremonial mace thingy (I cannot for the life of me recall what the Japanese word for it is.
S.
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Nov 8, 2005 13:43:49 GMT -5
Saionji no hime has it right. The white thing is called a tatou, and is a bundle of paper for whatever may need to be done -- from writing an off-the-cuff poem to sending a love letter to wiping one's nose. The stick is a shaku -- think of it as a sort of baton of rank.
BTW, that's not a kariginu. It's a hoeki no ho.
Effingham
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Nov 8, 2005 14:01:26 GMT -5
C'mon, Sensei, how many SCAdians do you know who have no idea how to move correctly in the clothing they've chosen for their persona? I still have to think about doing it myself!
My KWCS presentation on kosode ended up with a mini-demo with Gerald of Ipsley on standing, walking and sitting in Japanese clothing as I looked around the classroom and observed the sloppy way people were lounging in their seats.
Saionji no Mom Was Right, My Posture Sucks
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Nov 8, 2005 17:45:34 GMT -5
Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Saionji no hime has it right. The white thing is called a tatou, and is a bundle of paper for whatever may need to be done -- from writing an off-the-cuff poem to sending a love letter to wiping one's nose. The stick is a shaku -- think of it as a sort of baton of rank And, generally speaking, any man of about rank 5 or above should have both for any formal occasion, and should have the tatou pretty much all the time. The shaku is especially important if you are processing or sitting in state. The shaku lends a dignified air to the proceedings.
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Nov 8, 2005 17:52:20 GMT -5
Baron Edward! Greetings from Solveig! They're taking commemorative photos, and the thing they do is slouch and assume the least elegant pose possible? Oy. I simply assume that these people have little or no idea about what they are wearing or about how they are to be worn. What really bothers me is Society royalty and the Society photographers and artists who depict them who apparently have no idea what people are supposed to look like in official portraits. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
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