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Post by solveig on Dec 21, 2008 13:05:58 GMT -5
Ii dono! Greetings from Solveig! If you need something to carry things in, what about a wicker box and furoshiki around it. That's a good idea. Also, some nesting wicker boxes had ties to hold them closed. This is the case with a wicker box used in one variant of chabako temae tea ceremony. It should be fairly easy to find a picture of one of these. However, wrapping something in a furoshiki makes it easier to casually carry the thing. Also, it goes along with the Japanese penchant for wrapping things three times. Interesting notion. You peaked my curiosity, so I looked 印籠 inrou (lit. seal basket) up in 『講談社古語辞典』. They claim that the things have three or five sections and were originally used to store 「印」 signature seals and presumably their accoutrements. The article then goes on to say that they were later used to store 「薬」medicines. Unfortunately, the earliest citation for the word is in a haiku by Buson. This seems to put the things squarely in the Edo period.
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 21, 2008 16:10:43 GMT -5
Interesting notion. You peaked my curiosity, so I looked 印籠 inrou (lit. seal basket) up in 『講談社古語辞典』. They claim that the things have three or five sections and were originally used to store 「印」 signature seals and presumably their accoutrements. The article then goes on to say that they were later used to store 「薬」medicines. Unfortunately, the earliest citation for the word is in a haiku by Buson. This seems to put the things squarely in the Edo period. Well, the fact that we have one that belonged to Hideyoshi would seem to indicate that they were in use in at least the late 16th century (and I think I've seen a few others from that period), but I always assume that one I'm looking at is Edo period, which is why I've never really bothered (plus, I'm not sure if I can see much use for it, myself, as I don't have things like that to carry around). Might make a good 'emergency' sewing kit (a few needles, some very basic thread, etc.), but mostly they seem too small. It makes sense they were first used for seals. I had never really thought about the etymology of the word. -Ii
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Post by solveig on Dec 21, 2008 20:32:55 GMT -5
Ii dono! Greetings from Solveig! Well, the fact that we have one that belonged to Hideyoshi would seem to indicate that they were in use in at least the late 16th century (and I think I've seen a few others from that period) Well, there is no need for the artifact to only be as old as the word used for the things. Also, they may have had a different word applied to them earlier on. Further, we do have to consider whether or not the artifact was actually owned by Hideyoshi. Regardless, a poem by Buson being the earliest known literary reference suggests that they weren't very common until sometime in the seventeenth century or later. They may well have been a novelty in the late sixteenth century. Lots of new stuff crops up around then.
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Post by Noriko on Dec 23, 2008 0:08:06 GMT -5
I thought of an interesting, but non-period, way to carry valuables and I thought I'd toss it to the group. I contemplated the idea of tucking things into my kosode layers but realized that something might slip out- I'm neurotic that way. So I thought, I wonder what would happen if I put a money belt (the skinny kind one brings on vacation, not a fanny pack) on top of one layer, but below another? (like a second belt on my kosode but a bit higher up) One would still have the illusion of reaching into the folds to retrieve an object but I wouldn't have to worry about losing anything if the layers get shifted around (going to powder my nose etc.) My hakama tends to fall around my waist anyway, despite my best efforts to tie it slightly below the bust, so it would be easy to access. Yes, very, very modern but might in some respects preserve the feel/ten foot rule without having to worry.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 23, 2008 1:03:51 GMT -5
So I thought, I wonder what would happen if I put a money belt (the skinny kind one brings on vacation, not a fanny pack) on top of one layer, but below another? I don't see why it wouldn't work.
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suze
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Reality is for people who lack imagination
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Post by suze on Dec 23, 2008 6:31:18 GMT -5
and taking that idea - one more step - what about making that "money belt" from the same material as the "belt" you are using....
put a zipper in instead of the seam and roll it to the middle of the back.
Or is this a silly idea? ? ?
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 23, 2008 9:53:58 GMT -5
Sounds like it would work. I'll probably still go with the pouch around my neck for the time being, but I could see how other things would work as well.
Heck, if you are really snazzy (and have material that could hide it) you might be able to sew a sideways pocket into a lower layer at just the right point, with a zipper, so you could reach it, but still know it would be secure.
-Ii
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Post by solveig on Dec 23, 2008 10:13:31 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! So I thought, I wonder what would happen if I put a money belt (the skinny kind one brings on vacation, not a fanny pack) on top of one layer, but below another? (like a second belt on my kosode but a bit higher up) One would still have the illusion of reaching ... Yes, very, very modern but might in some respects preserve the feel/ten foot rule without having to worry. Sounds like it should be pretty undetectable at close range. Give it a try! Incidentally, himo (cords/belts) are frequently made out of different material.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Dec 23, 2008 13:27:13 GMT -5
Sounds like it would work. I'll probably still go with the pouch around my neck for the time being, but I could see how other things would work as well. Heck, if you are really snazzy (and have material that could hide it) you might be able to sew a sideways pocket into a lower layer at just the right point, with a zipper, so you could reach it, but still know it would be secure. -Ii I've done hidden pockets in sleeves and it works well. - Imagawa
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Post by yoshinaga on Jan 8, 2009 20:57:18 GMT -5
if you are wearing a kimono with large sleeves why cant you keep stuff in there?
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jan 8, 2009 21:35:09 GMT -5
if you are wearing a kimono with large sleeves why cant you keep stuff in there? You can - if you're a man. Men's kosode sleeves are sewn closed up the back will work. Women's sleeves are open at the back to show decorative linings, so they tend to make lousy storage.
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