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Post by Michimasa on Mar 9, 2005 15:28:15 GMT -5
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Mar 9, 2005 15:37:54 GMT -5
I like it a lot. It might be a little odd in a European blazon (is it all border and no charge?) but has several things going for it: (1) It is not pictoral (2) It is not a landscape (3) It is not dependant on color (4) It uses strong geometric shapes (5) It is symmetrical (BTW - none of these are 'requirements' in Japanese mon-ology ... just general guidelines). Is there any period conflict?
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Post by Masahide on Mar 9, 2005 15:52:23 GMT -5
I would like your comments on the following design Mik-dono, I like it. From a COH perspective, it is a "voided hexagon fracted at each corner". I'm not sure how to describe the inner voided hex however. Let me think about it. Masahide
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 9, 2005 16:29:29 GMT -5
...From a COH perspective, it is a "voided hexagon fracted at each corner"... The only way I can think of doing it would be: "Argent, a hexagon azure fracted at each corner, within a voided hexagon azure fracted at each corner." I do not see a way to differentiate the sizes of the hexes.
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Post by Masahide on Mar 9, 2005 17:02:08 GMT -5
I do not see a way to differentiate the sizes of the hexes. Yeah, me too. I was going to look up stuff on barlettes, coitises, etc, and see if we can make any of those apply, or if there is a general term we can use to define it. I was looking in the online Pimbley's Dictionary of Heraldry, (http://digiserve.com/heraldry/pimbley.htm) and I found Perhaps we can use the following: "Argent, a hexagon voided and fracted at each corner, within a diminutive hexagon voided and fracted at each corner, azure." Thoughts? How about a "hexagonlet"? ;D Masahide
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 9, 2005 21:22:30 GMT -5
How about a "hexagonlet"? ;D Masahide Is there such a thing as a cotised hexagon? She who knows JUST enough heraldry to be a menace
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 9, 2005 22:08:37 GMT -5
The problem I am seeing is that with the exception of noted diminutives, (i.e. bar) we can't "make" a new diminutive, at least that will pass. I don't see any precedent for a single sided cottise... Why oh why can't there be a type of border that follows the shape of the charge instead of the field. @*#@^%!!!! nanban and there funny heraldry... -Takeda
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Post by Michimasa on Mar 10, 2005 11:17:32 GMT -5
Thanks all for the nice comments. I modified the drawing to be white on black to be more consistent to what is usually seen. Also add to the WEB page a few references material that inspired my design. As I told, been able to register it would be a plus but it is not a major concern. I'm more concert about it having an acceptable period look. Mik
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Post by Masahide on Mar 10, 2005 12:25:11 GMT -5
I don't see any precedent for a single sided cottise... Actually, according to Pimbley, you can have one, it is called a "cost". Is there such a thing as a cotised hexagon? And that is the rub. We can do a single "cost" but it is specifically a subordinary of a bend. Two of them are called "cottise" or "a bend cottised". The hexagon is not an ordinary, so it doesn't have a subordinary. In fact, I really haven't run into stuff in heraldic books that indicate a hexagon was used in period, but we use them in the SCA all the time. Sigh... I guess it is more research time.... Masahide
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Post by Michimasa on Mar 10, 2005 13:57:22 GMT -5
Found this on oanda.sca.org, is it of any help ?
Mik
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 10, 2005 15:26:20 GMT -5
It does help a little, it's a less wordy way of saying it but it also would be a conflict to yours.
The dilemma in my mind is how to diferentiate the sizes of the hexagons... I do not see a practical way that is even close to acceptable for the CoH
If the CoH was not a problem (like if you registered it with the USJHRS ((in english))) Two hexagons fracted (broken), interior minor.
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Post by Masahide on Mar 10, 2005 16:04:54 GMT -5
If the CoH was not a problem (like if you registered it with the USJHRS ((in english))) What is the USJHRS? The only problem I see, is that it will conflict. Even with the fracting, that would be considered a single change, and it needs two. You could do an argent field, and a sable hex, and that would not conflict.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 10, 2005 16:24:09 GMT -5
USJHRS= United States Japanese Historical Research Society.
I do not have the link, but it looks like I'll be the one organizing the "Ministry/Office of Banners and Insignia" (still have to figure out a name for the CoH equalent)
Were working on documenting the period mon and insignia and making a set of standards for heraldic practice. We want to provide a means for people to register accurate mon/standards/banners, and accurate names, in addition recording and registering the actual kanji as well. Our goal is besides serving the USJHRS is to eventualy offer to the CoH either someone to keep track of the Japanese for them, or to set up a seperate standard with the CoH for Japanese after they see a workable form.
I plan on making an announcement to begin registrations for people on this list as well as on SCA-JML in a week or two. (I need to standardize the forms and process.)
-Takeda Sanjuichiro
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Post by Masahide on Mar 10, 2005 16:25:32 GMT -5
cool!
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Post by OgamiBusho on Mar 10, 2005 17:35:26 GMT -5
To my way of thinking it's perfect. It's elegant, easy to identify across a battlefield and it's REPRODUCABLE. You can make a stencil and crank out a hundred of them in an afternoon. Now all you need are a dozen or so retainers to wear it on their sashimono.
Quite frankly, I'm jealous. Thirty years ago when I designed my mon I didn't have a clue about what would be correct. Mine's about as Japanese as leiderhosen. But on the upside, I've made stencils of it and cranked out a hundred of them in an afternoon, and a dozen or so of my retainers wear it on their sashimono.
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