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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 23, 2004 9:03:31 GMT -5
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 25, 2004 23:32:21 GMT -5
Applications in melee.
Ken no sen: This is hard to do given battles that start at the blow of a horn. If the opposing lines close at the pace of a march, you could charge first. Or just be more prepared - messengers ready, units lined up.
Tai no sen: If the enemy closes at a charge, you could counter with a pulse which would bring contact two steps before they expect it. I would think that this would work best with an enemy with a well dresssed line. If the enemy is pushing an attack on one flank, a swift counter attack from the center on the oblique could be an example of tai no sen.
Tai Tai no Sen: Both sides attack the right flank. Both charge up the middle.
Any other thoughts? Any melee fighters out there?
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Post by raito on Oct 26, 2004 14:23:51 GMT -5
I think you're going the wrong direction with your thinking here.
Ken no Sen: This is quite possible, even when the battle begins at the whistle. Witness the Unbelted Champions battle this year as Pennsic for the Middle. Classic example. The Mid hit at >their< pleasure, not at the East's. This one is a matter of attacking at your chosen place and time (in melee, slightly different when in a duel), rather than his. It's not just a matter of moving first.
Tai no Sen: Much better to refuse 2 steps than to pulse 2 steps. The opposition has picked where their attack will take place, and you don't let it happen there.
Tai Tai no Sen: Definitely not as you describe. More like they charge up the middle, and you flank. It's about getting the batter position when both sides move at the same time.
Again, the sen are about initiative, and getting the preferred position with respect to battle. How does both sides flanking or charging give your side the initiative?
The consummate singles version of Tai Tai no Sen is cutting dou as your opponent cuts men. Both at the same time, your blow hits, his does not.
To continue, the singles version of Tai no Sen is to step back as he cuts, and step in and countercut.
Ken no Sen is just cutting him first and having done with it.
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Nov 22, 2004 17:40:39 GMT -5
I appreciate your insight and correction.
Given your description, the counter attack on the oblique I originally thought of as tai-no-sen I believe you would place in tai-tai-no-sen.
The dual attack that I thought of as tai-tai-no-sen could be thought of as both cutting men. One sword will be displaced by that attack as the two cannot both occupy the exact centerline. Which sen would this be?
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