4 spots?

[Yvarg]

recently me and one of my classmates had a disagreement about samurai training. he said that his teacher (who apparently was a foreign exchange student in japan and china) told him that the samurai were trained to hit 4 parts of the body. i didnt think it was true. i dont know much about their training, so here i am asking the most learned in ancient japanese living i know were the samurai trained to attack only 4 spots on the body? thanks in advance for helping us work this out.

[Saionji Shonagon]

While I must defer to the more knowledgeable bushi on this list, I do recall that there are four legal strike zones in competetive kendo: head, forearm, torso and throat. This might have something to do with your friend's recollection. Then again, if you want to kill someone with a sword before he kills you with a sword - or before he kills himself to prevent you from doing it - where would be the most effective place(s) to strike?

I've been making my way through McCullough's translation of the "Tale of the Heike" and most of the fighting is done from the back of a speeding horse. If getting hit with arrows isn't working, it seems to be common practice for mounted fighting to try to wrestle one's oponent off his horse and either take his head or get a blade up under his armor, stab him and THEN take his head. This often ends up with both parties dead after rolling around on the ground in what McCullough refers to as dagger fights.

The other thing that happens fairly frequently is suicide before the enemy can kill you. Even the six-year-old Emperor's grandmother, watching the tide of battle turn against the Heike, picks up her grandson in her arms and jumps off their boat into the sea rather than be dishonored by letting their enemies take them.

Just don't tell anybody. I'm not supposed to know this stuff! I must go powder my face and look ornamental.

M.

[Yvarg]

he mentioned something about bushido teaching them to strike only 4 places on the body (wrists, neck, stomach, and legs). i doubted that he knew wut he was talking about because he didnt seem to even know that most warfare was done on horseback. on a side note, if I were in battle and somebody was charging at me with a spear, sword or anyother weapon i wouldnt follow the any rules of 4 bodytargets. i would fight using some of my other friend's concepts of war, the only rule is to kill the other guy before he kills u. it doesnt matter how, just kill him. im not particularly sure if the japanese had the same mindset in battle tho

[AJBryant]

Yeah, that's definitely some martial art thingie.

Martial arts != bushido.

For one thing... no HEAD shots? C'mon. That's insane.

Your friend is somewhat confused about what he has heard, I fear...

Tony

[Saionji Shonagon]

greeneel22 said:

i would fight using some of my other friend's concepts of war, the only rule is to kill the other guy before he kills u. it doesnt matter how, just kill him. im not particularly sure if the japanese had the same mindset in battle tho

As I mentioned earlier, I'm most of the way through "The Tale of the Heike." Written down a couple hundred years after the events it describes in the 1100's, it chronicles the rivalry between the Taira and Genji clans for the control of the nation and describes many, many, MANY battles and how various characters on both sides of the conflict behave. It's definitely worth reading if you want to know what the medieval Japanese mindset actually was. ;->

I'm betting some of our other board members can suggest other books, or even movies to check out. Many of them have been doing the Japanese thing a LOT longer than I have and are much more knowledgeable.

M.

[Yvarg]

Your friend is somewhat confused about what he has heard, I fear...

thats wut i suspected

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

...Your friend is somewhat confused about what he has heard, I fear...

Yeah, we wont even go into things like trusts to the armpits (tachi/katana), stabbing to the foot (spear) hamsting shots (naginata) thrusts down along the neck (tanto)...

Takeda Sanjuichiro

[Takeda Hirotsune]

Hi guys, my first post on Tousando .

I am unable to find the diagram now, but there are many, many spots on the body a samurai attacks. What modern kendo trains is, wel, limited. But do keep in mind that although there are many places to strike, you don't usually want to do that (mostly due to the attacks on those places being to slow, believe me, you don't want to try to hit a leg with a katana, not when the other guy is smart)

Most points of attack with a katana are aimed for what would otherwise be weakspots in armor, or just spots you can reach easily. For other spots, other weapons would be better.

my 2cts

[Otagiri Tatsuzou]

Guest-Takeda said:

Hi guys, my first post on Tousando .

Irrashaimasu! Welcome!

[Please Delete]

Guest-Takeda said:

Hi guys, my first post on Tousando .

Again: Irrrasshaimaseee!

To add my two yen:

In modern, post-WWII kendo there are only four legal targets:

Men (head)
Do (torso)
Kote (wrist)
Tsuki (throat) ['tsuki' means 'thrust', where the others describe the bogu, or protective gear.]

Atarashii Naginata includes all of these and:
Sune-ate (shin)

These are how you score a point. In the old days, things were a lot more violent and I get the feeling there were a lot more targets, or at least ways of hitting them. For instance, one way to win a match in old kendo was to trip your opponent and then choke them out with their men.

In diagrams I've seen, they disect the human body in many different and almost scientific ways with different cuts for either attacking the openings in armour, where you would hit the vitals, or where you would hit the least resistance. On the torso alone I can think of at least four horizontal lines of cutting.

Perhaps odd today, armoured combat seemed to find the straight strike to the head less inviting than some other shots, like under the elbow, or a kesa that gets them at the collarbone and goes through. I can think of some cuts that specifically go for the head, but most seem to aim for the torso, cutting in at the neck and down, or trying to cut straight down, which goes through the head and into the body as well.

No restriction on the 'number' of targets though, in either Mugai Ryu Iaihyodo, Nakamura Ryu Battodo, or Tendo Ryu Naginatajutsu (nor any other that I've seen).

-Ii