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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 25, 2005 12:46:59 GMT -5
I've been slacking. I know it. I'm not beating myself up about it. I am in better shape physically and technically than I was this time last year. But as I thing about what I would like to work on during the winter, I would very much like to hear about your training experiences, philosophies, and techniques. Yes, that's you Kitatate Tenno, Ogami Busho, Takeda-dono, Date-dono and anybody else actively training or fighting. The kind of things I'm thinking of: Core Strength: Weights, walking, running, yoga Technique: How do you use a pell, are there any kata you perform, how do you practise combinations, drills, reading material Fighter Practice: What to do you do at fighter practice? Non-fighter Practice: Do you do any multi-player study that is not 'randori'? Anything else that you can think of... And anybody who wants to spill the beans on the Clan YamaKaminari okuden ... you can always post as 'guest'.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 25, 2005 15:02:23 GMT -5
I've been slacking. I know it. You are not the only one These are the things that used to be part of my training, some I still do, others... well I have been lazy. Core Strength: I do not do any weight training, but I strengthen my muscles with opposed resistance. (muscle against muscle) I also augment that with hand and wrist excersizes, squishy balls, gripmasters, and the weight on a rope trick (you turn the stick with both hands and wind the weight up and down, realy strengthens your forearm strength for snaps) Technique: I have not used a pell in 10 years, and tend to avoid beating on solid objects like trees. It did little to improve my shot placement or speed. I personally found it hard on equipment and me. Others swear by it, so I do not doubt it is effective for many. I do alot of slow work, sort of like kata but not rigidly set, also I do them slower and repeatedly. It takes me some time to learn a new tecnique, but I am usualy happy with the accuracy and strength. Fighter Practice: Recently I have been spliting my time between practicing greatsword against sword and shield (they done gone and changes styles on me) and instructing a few other people in GS who have taken up and intrest. Non-fighter Practice: Do you do any multi-player study that is not 'randori'? ?? Not sure what randori is... we do some melees at practice, we try to do a few passes once a week for melee drills, especially when we have more of the new/less war experianced people there. Anything else that you can think of... The single biggest jump in my ability came from stepping away from the standard SCA training regimine and doing some slow practice by myself, I think it was a matter of taking the time to realy let my body decide what is the most efficent moves, where my strengths are, and were my weaknesses are. When I had come back to SCA combat after a several year break my skill was easily double what it had been. My (age) peers in the SCA who had stayed with it had also advanced, when I had left they usualy took me, when I came back it was the reverse. I am not advocating a break, maybe I am a freak, but I tend to think it was more of my body maturing and my mind understanding that. I do not know if I am dedicated enough to fighting to re-think my fitness in that regard, however I am out of shape, and my stamina is pathetic. The impact of that alone on my personal health for me is the correct motivation, if it improves my fighting ability that is just a bonus. -Takeda
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Oct 25, 2005 18:18:49 GMT -5
As for myself, I have various ways of training...
Fore Core Strength, I walk a lot...I mean a lot! Miles per day.... I wake up early and walk. Ogami Sensei has told me often he cannot believe how early I wake up...
I also ride bike but I do not run. Ever since my Marine Corps Days when I had to run 3-5 miles every other day, I currently would not run anywhere if I were on fire...I would calmly drop to the ground and roll to water...
I hate running...
Technique: I do a lot of pell work...I have a single stick rope-wrapped makiwara that I use at home, marked from the "knee" up. I hit it full strength and full speed, usually making passes to improve my footwork, though sometimes I do stationary work. Thrusting at a 4 inch makiwara on the fly with a spear is not bad training...
Ogami Sensei has Fritz, a win-chun style mobile pell on bungees that moves when you strike it, and has arms and legs...and now the ever popular "Victor" (Pronounced "WEEEEEktoooor") that is stationary, but has a shield and a movable sword arm...both wonderful tools...the former great for spear work...the latter good for "against sword and shield" kinda stuff. Victor has broad feet that a fighter can sit on, and other fighters can womp the snot out of him at full force and speed...without fear of him attacking you back...(though once, when I wasn't looking, Ogami Sensei attacked Victor and Victor retaliated by attacking me as I was pulling my armor off...Me and Victor had a talk...) We at the YK use those a lot...
On my own makiwara I wil often do a hundred passes a day...working a single technique at full speed. I cannot see only working a technique slow as I do not fight slow...once or twice to get the positioning and legwork...but after that...all ahead full... I fight the speed that the combat requires... but I do see the need for surgical precision...
Sometimes, I attach a tennis ball to surgical tubing and suspend that top and bottom so I have a "whanger-ball" This is a hard to hit mobile tool that is good training for thrusts and cuts.
Fighter practice? Same as tournaments, I fight whomever is armed with whatever I feel like... I do not focus on katana alone, nor do I try to match my weapon against theirs for "courtesy" In tournaments where certain forms are required, I point out that the required forms are bung, and fight with what ever weapons I choose, or I sit out if they are going to bitch about it. I am way past caring about certain "conventions" I tend to fight the biggest, best, most highly ranked persons at any given situation, though I do not shun fighting the newbies. The newbies remind you that what you though "just could not be done" can in fact, be done (The newbie does not know you cannot do that) and fighting the Dukes and Knights really make you work. I have been fighting for more than twenty years, and I will make you work...but finding people who make ME work helps me!
Non Fighter Practice: I will not reveal my Clans ways, but suffice it to say that I give a lot...and I mean A LOT of thought, all the time to tactics and combat. I never let my mind forget that keeping death in my mind is the only way to really live.
I have been shot at with real projectile weapons, attacked with random weapons, attacked with a knife in a very personal manner, and have been beaten on by the best of martial artists and SCA combatants alike. Not all of these attacks were the friendly combat we sometimes take for granted.
I have broken a few arms, one hand, one wrist, three elbows, and one leg...I have inflicted death and severe wounding on some people as needed. (I was a guest in the Kingdomes of Irag and Saudi Arabia in the former Gulf War) Not one of these combats do I shrug off and say, well, that was a game. (None of these was in SCA COMBAT CONTEXT) Knowing how to apply a technique and doing it are two different things, but knowing that what we do in the SCA is not meant to be lethal is important. I take a lot of time and effort to insure that when I fight SCA it is non-lethal...accurate...but given the tools we use...non-lethal. Stopping ourselves from hurting someone is often harder training than learning to attack...I hope people keep that in mind!
As for anything that I can think of... I shoot about a hundred arrows a day, with my yumi. I have two yumi, a real laminated bamboo one made by Jaap Kopedrayer, and a carbon/fibre one I use in rough weather. I shoot in armor, in garb, standing, kneeling, and sitting. Generally I shoot at either 28 meters, or 88 feet (the length of my yard on the long side) I have two dozen arrows, so I can load up my ebira and shoot that way with a period style leather glove, or I shoot pairs according to ANKF rules with a hard glove. I shoot each arrow as if I were shooting a person - I never forget that the arts I study were meant to kill people. I focus on making each shot as precise as I can, because it would make the person suffer less...or in some cases, the deer... Yes, I have taken deer with my bows (and proper arrow heads)
Lastly, I practice my arts by serving my Sensei. Service is a true art...often harder than any martial art...but required to be like a Samurai.
Date, one who serves.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 25, 2005 18:36:21 GMT -5
Hey! You haven't made a pass at me in - Oh. Never mind. Her
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Oct 25, 2005 19:01:31 GMT -5
would you enjoy stationary work , or attack on the fly? :-)
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 25, 2005 19:55:28 GMT -5
Promises, promises. Look over there! A flying bowl! Saionji
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 25, 2005 19:56:27 GMT -5
would you enjoy stationary work , or attack on the fly? :-) The samurai pounce !?! And here I thought that secret technique was known only by my knight. How trusting we squires are! Randori is a free-form exercise. As practised in aikido, it usually means multiple attackes who are not using preset attacks and are attacking at something close to 'combat speed'. I use the term to refer to SCA fighter practice where two guys in armour just bash away at each other for a while without really working on any special technique or drill. While it has its uses, as training I think we do too much of it.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 25, 2005 20:02:10 GMT -5
Why, Otagiri-dono, this maneuver seems to come up in conversations with you rather often. Were you perhaps a cat in a previous incarnation? S. (It's GOOD to be the girl.)
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 26, 2005 10:45:16 GMT -5
When I fall off the wagon, I find it easy to get back on by the simple formula used at the President's Challenge. 30 minutes of activity, 5 days a week. It doesn't really matter what I'm doing, as long as I do some combo that is 30 minutes, 5 days a week. Right now, physically, its mostly walking, one fighter practice a week, and I am beginning to add back in the spear kata and Combat Conditioning sets. www.presidentschallenge.org/home_adults.aspx(I log spear kata as "Baton Twirling")
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Post by Saiaiko on Oct 26, 2005 13:35:01 GMT -5
The best way to learn the secrets of Kaminari is to kneel in front of Ogami and be in his way every time he tries to go to the bathroom. It also helps to kneel behind his car when he tries to leave. Eventually, he will look down at you and ask you if you have your mother's permission. If you say yes, then he will give you the key to the garage and explain to you that the snowblower doesn't work well in reverse. After that, he may hand you a stick and tell you not to lose it.
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Post by Matsuura Suetsune on Oct 26, 2005 14:27:28 GMT -5
Premarriage 20 sets at the gym work day of climbing or planting trees 30 minutes of slow kata for lunch gym or kata after work soccer practice or game rock climbing wall or horse back riding maybe some more kata for a night cap soccer, climbing, or archery on the week ends always reading, asking questions and being a nuisance
Marriage normal work day sword work for lunch 30 minutes at the gym alternating soccer and kata sometimes climbing, sometimes not 1 or 2 practices a week asking questions, reading more mature and real world stuff, leading the canton
child 30 minutes at the gym slightly less active work day occasional kata for lunch sneaking in as much kata during my work day as possible 1 hour mountain bike ride or hike with the elk hound sometimes the gym again chasing a 2 year old around kata occasionally walk the dog for 30 minutes answering questions, asking new questions, research and more mature reading, deputy baronial leader
Try rock climbing for balance, full continual muscle workout, dynamic of static movement, concentration, stretching, blaaa blaaa, blaa
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Post by Saiaiko on Oct 27, 2005 0:36:15 GMT -5
Argh! My rice-fed figure trembles in abject shame! I have no regimen, and the anti-diet season approaches like kitsune seeking warmth at the hearth!
Usually, at Pennsic, I rely on a lack of coffee and Motrin to fuel my energy and bloodlust. I'm not really making a joke here. It's amazing what your body can do when it doesn't know it's doing it.
Seriously, this thread has been useful in re-assessment. I agree, Saionji-hime, sometimes it is sooo good to be the girl.
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Post by Kitadatetenno on Oct 27, 2005 11:39:40 GMT -5
Actively training? I wish. Politics requires as much strategy as any bout.
I think you may be too caught up in process by your categorization. What is the goal? The simple answer is to fight better.
How to get to the goal? Make everything you do be practice for it.
More practical advice: Never miss practice. Ever. When at practice, always be working on something, not just fighting for enjoyment. When not at practice, practice. Note your weaknesses, and train to reduce them. Note your strengths, and train to increase them. Figure out what you need to do right now to get better, and do it.
Physical training? I need to do more now as the ankle has ceased to be an excuse, except in how much I can do. I tend to do easy stuff on an irregular basis, really just when my body says it needs to move about. Mostly, it's a simplified Middle Kingdom Army regimen. Stretching, squats, pushups, bridges, and old stuff from my wrestling days.
Technique? I have a commute to think in, and I refine my technique, both physical and mental during it. For me, pell work is for endurance, and making myself into a rock as far as striking goes. I can already put the sword pretty much where I want it to go, so pure technical stuff doesn't get done on the pell. I do work some escrima stuff, irregularly, to increase my facility and mobility with weapons.
Fighter Practice? Right now, it's all about being King. When it's not, I'm about 50-50 training others and training myself. Count Seigfried is about the only one who can explicitly train me at this point (and to think, I used to train HIM), and he's not around. We have a big enough area that everyone can be on tie filed at the same time. I just try to fight continuously, and work on stuff that doesn't work well. On occasion, or on request, I'll dial it up to the top, and keep count of how many bouts I fight, and how many I win. Getting ready for the Crown I won, I was doing at least 150 bouts a practice, and losing 10-15 on a bad day. Our practice does not lend itself to specific training.
Other multi-player stuff? No. But I think about melee a lot. Git a new spear regimen ready to spring on people.
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Post by Matsuura Suetsune on Oct 27, 2005 12:18:54 GMT -5
Heres something I tell most climbers and combatants. "Watch whats going on and when you see ( or receive ) a movement, a blow, or fake, ask that person to show, explain, and demonstrate to you what they are doing". Thats your home work. Not 3 things, not 5 things, just the one. Practice it till you own it. Every week get something new. There is always more homework. Even if it doesn't work for you at least you know what to look for in your opponent's movement. Most folks don't have a kata or lesson plan to help you, so you you have to piecemeal together your own.
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Post by OgamiBusho on Oct 28, 2005 0:56:24 GMT -5
Nothing is better then having a competent sensei. But if you don't have one, that doesn't mean you're screwed.
There are any number of ways to exercise. Pick one you can tolerate and that you'll stick with. (Of course, it's better to have a partner who can guilt you into doing it.) using a speed bad would be a good idea.
To learn technique, study people who fight well. Videotape them if you can. Take notes and make sketches. Compile a notebook of techniques. Study the notebook and keep adding to it. Talk to people about what they do. Find out what they think, what their philosophy is. Keep it in your notebook.
Practice the techniques you've swiped. Refine them. Tape yourself doing them, and think about how you would kill you. Use a full-length mirror and do the same thing.
There's an old kung-fu saying: If you want to learn to kick, then kick.
This would be a good start.
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