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Post by thewraithsninja on Dec 21, 2007 1:12:50 GMT -5
hello, come jan. 13 i'm getting knighting ;D. i am not a member of the sca, but i am a member of another reenactment group. anyways to make a long story short i was wonder for some ideas of how to incorporate my samurai persona into the knighting. thanks
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 21, 2007 7:41:33 GMT -5
Congratulations! So, what group are you with, and what does the knighting ceremony require? Japanese didn't really have an elaborate rank elevation ceremony that I am aware of--you might throw a banquet for your good fortune, but I don't believe there was a big formal ceremony (I'd be happy to find out I was wrong). If you go the rank promotion route, that was usually just a board put up during certain festivals that listed all the promotions for that time of year, if I understand it right. Being recognized as 'samurai' appears to have been more of a social thing, in our period of study. That said, if you have a Japanese persona for which you are being knighted, you could always be called into the ruler's presence in Japanese clothing (you'd probably want the bukan sokutai-- www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garb.ch02.html). That can be difficult to get together at a moment's notice, but if you can, it would be awesome. Otherwise, very nice hitatare-kamishimo would do well. If you can, a tachi (or katana slung tachi style, or just through the obi in an appropriate tachi manner) would be good. Give us more info... what are you looking at without the Japanese persona incorporated? Are you going to have western elements? What things can't be changed? If this is a non-SCA ceremony, most of us are not going to have a tremendous amount of experience with it. Again, congratulations! -Ii
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Post by thewraithsninja on Dec 22, 2007 2:08:33 GMT -5
i am a member of the Adrian Empire, as for the katana i am actually receiving my tamishigiri blade for my Christmas/ knighting gift. the only western element that i really want to keep would be the last unanswered blow that is received. as far as what we can change the crowns have given me pretty much full range to make it my own.
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Post by thewraithsninja on Dec 22, 2007 2:10:54 GMT -5
oh yea i was kinda thinking about wherein all white.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 22, 2007 2:20:08 GMT -5
oh yea i was kinda thinking about wherein all white. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, but it was my understanding that wearing all white is associated with death, particularly ritual suicide.
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Post by Tatsuya on Dec 22, 2007 4:15:16 GMT -5
wearing all white is associated with death, particularly ritual suicide. White was also worn during funerals, though western style clothing (suit+tie) is often worn these days. Religious pilgrims also wear white.
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Dec 22, 2007 5:52:18 GMT -5
oh yea i was kinda thinking about wherein all white. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, but it was my understanding that wearing all white is associated with death, particularly ritual suicide. I believe there are other ritual occasions where all-white is appropriate, not just death-related situations. I know there's a all-white shinto ritual garment worn by the Emperor in modern times...
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 22, 2007 8:57:26 GMT -5
I believe white might be associated with death in a Buddhist sense, but for Shinto it usually represents purity.
That said, I cannot think of a garment that would look right in white for what you are doing. If the ceremony is one of receiving a sword, then it is martial in nature (i.e. not a rank promotion ceremony of some kind). As such, I would think a good daimon kamishimo (hitatare and hakama printed all over with big versions of your personal mon) would be an excellent outfit. Something in a bright silk or glossy hemp/linen would work well.
Can you duck walk or otherwise move gracefully from a seated position? If so, you could be called into court, where you would do a formal bow (down on your hands and knees, hands out in a triangle in front of you, bow low, not bending your neck--don't touch your forehead all the way to the ground, but try to go at least parallel with the ground or a little more). You should do this outside of the '1 step' maai, imho--in other words, a safe distance where you are not 'threatening' the superior in any way. Sit in seiza while they say whatever they want to say about you and what they are giving you and why.
When they have something to give you, walk up on your knees to receive it (if you don't know how to do this gracefully, see if someone near you does aikido or another similar art and has experience). Receive it with both hands underneath. If it is a sword, make sure that you have a finger around the tsuba to keep it from falling open. Bow as you receive it to show your appreciation.
Hold the sword in your right hand as you back away--it just seems less threatening because it is harder for most people to draw from there. Back up to your original position (on your knees, if you can) and put the sword down by your right side, tsuba about level with your knee, and blade turned inwards. Ideally, your hakama should look nice, so if you can find a way to straighten it out into a nice triangle without drawing attention to it (i.e. don't look at it as you do it), that's good. With the sword on the ground, bow one more time. Assuming you have leave, grab the sword in your right hand and stand back up, keeping out of any threatening situation. Take three steps backwards, then turn over your right shoulder and exit court.
That's my recommendation. It isn't 'period' but a mishmash of things that should give a properly formal and Japanese feel to the ceremony.
I would recommend receiving the buffet in seiza if you can--perhaps even after you have received your sword. Alternatively, if someone has an iaito, you could go one further--rather than a buffet, someone comes behind you and goes up into jodan while you stay in seiza, eyes front. Have them cut for your neck, but stop just before they get there (note: get someone experienced for this--don't just choose them because they are a good guy. Make sure they are practiced and know what they are doing). It is a similar principle--you just allowed someone to take an unopposed swing at you with a deadly weapon without responding to them. Just a thought. If you don't trust the person, have them stand a little ways back, so they have about a foot more than they need. From the back it shouldn't be very distinguishable.
Again, if you are going to do something like that--1) Do Not Use a Live Blade! 2) Only Allow Someone With Some Skill To Swing The Sword (and not just SCA or Adrian fighting, imho)! 3) Practice Beforehand! Practice slowly and make sure you are comfortable with it. My group does kumitachi (two man forms) with iaito, but it takes practice.
-Ii
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 22, 2007 12:36:07 GMT -5
Can you duck walk or otherwise move gracefully from a seated position? If so, you could be called into court, where you would do a formal bow (down on your hands and knees, hands out in a triangle in front of you, bow low, not bending your neck--don't touch your forehead all the way to the ground, but try to go at least parallel with the ground or a little more)..... When they have something to give you, walk up on your knees to receive it (if you don't know how to do this gracefully, see if someone near you does aikido or another similar art and has experience). Receive it with both hands underneath. If it is a sword, make sure that you have a finger around the tsuba to keep it from falling open. Bow as you receive it to show your appreciation..... You've just described what Fujimaki did when he received his AoA. ;D It made a splendid impression.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Dec 22, 2007 12:48:50 GMT -5
I believe white might be associated with death in a Buddhist sense, but for Shinto it usually represents purity. -Ii i would agree with this, but it is mostly used in children (less than 18 years of age) for adults it is just a background color to something else
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 22, 2007 19:12:38 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm not sure if I read your post right, are you saying that after age 18, people don't care if they wear white or not?
I'd say that, modernly, you probably won't find many people who worry about wearing white. However, within our period of study (actually, I'd say even during the Edo period), I have never found much use of white to the exclusion of any other color except for special or religious purposes in outer garments.
-Ii
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Post by solveig on Dec 22, 2007 21:22:43 GMT -5
Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Religious pilgrims also wear white. Yes, and their costume is usually rather specific as well. Currently, there is no taboo on white clothing. However, in a medieval context, about the only people you might see wearing white, aside from those already mentioned, are certain Shintoh functionaries and possibly certain servants who accompanied ox carts. When you receive just about anything from a formal superior, you accept it with both hands and lift it up to about eyebrow level.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Dec 22, 2007 23:31:57 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm not sure if I read your post right, are you saying that after age 18, people don't care if they wear white or not? I'd say that, modernly, you probably won't find many people who worry about wearing white. However, within our period of study (actually, I'd say even during the Edo period), I have never found much use of white to the exclusion of any other color except for special or religious purposes in outer garments. -Ii i was seaking specifically of shintos colors are very important to us, because different colors can represent different gods
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Dec 23, 2007 5:17:16 GMT -5
As a practicing Zen Buddhist, I feel the need to stick my two cents in here. White is the Buddhist color of mourning, and is not specifically associated with death. Outside of mourning, white is always considered to be the color of purity (specifically the purity of Dharma - the central Buddhist teachings). White is one of the colors on the international Buddhist flag for that reason. White became the color of purity due to a dream the Buddha's mother had (in which she dreamed a white elephant descended from the heavens and touched her abdomen with its trunk - to later find out she was pregnant with the Buddha). - Imagawa
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Dec 23, 2007 20:43:54 GMT -5
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