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Post by sebastian on Oct 3, 2005 2:12:30 GMT -5
In gathering my information for my persona, I am curious how meals were prepared while on the road in the military. What was eaten, what suppliest were used, etc. I'm also looking for ways to adapt that to SCA, making it easier to transport/clean up while on site at an event. Has anyone done any of this before? I myself would be perfectly content with rice and soy for a weekend. But I, like others, absolutely hate cleanup at campsites. And I would like to not have many perishables to bring for meals. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 3, 2005 8:29:43 GMT -5
I am curious how meals were prepared while on the road in the military. What was eaten, what supplies were used, etc. Has anyone done any of this before? Keep in mind much of my info is from relatively limited research, (not reading Japanese is a problem at times), but it depended upon your station. For the lower rank and file, meals typically included a portion of parboiled rice (the parboiling made it vaguely edible even if not cooked further), this was prepared by a shorter cooking time with less water and fuel for the fire that to fully cook rice in one go. Suppliments to the diet were millet, beans, daikon (there is one campaign scroll showing a bunch of daikons tied together and hanging off the end of someone's yari) miso, dried fish, kampyo (preserved gourd) and bamboo shoots. Generally speaking rice, millet, beans, miso, maybe pickles, and kampyo, stored and traveled well, and like any good body of soldiers through history, foraging, looting, and otherwise "aquireing" other products for the pot were key. Hunting probably was done as well, but I am sure the buddhist ideal of the prohibition on killing/eating meat led to the practice of hunting being omitted from the records. Soldiers dishes were cooked in either a handy iron jingasa (conical helmet) simple cast iron pots such as below, or a handy wok, generally over a small open fire, or a small fire pit.  The higher ranks and the lords either brought a staff with them who dragged along a field kitchen of sorts, and would suppliment that with stops to temples, wayhouses, or being "uninvited guests" to wherever they had a fancy to park their backside for the evening. They typically enjoyed meals as they were occustomed to in their own lands, unless regional ingredients were not available. I would imagine there were times (like fleeing from a battle) that they would eat meals more in line with the common solider, or if they were being practical and did not want a large staff slowing down their progress. I usualy drag along a 2 burner Coleman stove, The flat one, assorted pots and pans and maybe a small propane grill. This past Pennsic, aside from buying a spit to roast a leg of lamb over, I also made a habachi (braisier) out of a heavily glazed plant pot. I filled the bottom with sand and lit a charcoal fire in it. I grilled meat on skewers, made tea, made a small protion of rice, deep fried meat, made a simmered pork and onion dish (yummy, kind of like stew) fried tofu, and made some noodles. In short it worked well, the downside was the charcoal I had must have had some serious moisture problems (it was old the fasion kind of charcoaled random wood chunks) and had a nasty habit of popping sending burning sparks everwhere. A different charcoal I used had better results. -Takeda |
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Post by sebastian on Oct 3, 2005 16:45:12 GMT -5
Great info!  I'm trying to keep down on perishables and finding a good way to make rice at camp will be key. The small charcoal grill sounds like an interesting idea. However most camp sites down here in FL are no open fires permitted so I would probably need to tone it down..or just use normal charcoal |
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Post by Abe Akirakeiko on Oct 8, 2005 13:01:08 GMT -5
I should say at this point (although he will deny it) that Takeda-dono is an absolutely AWESOME camp cook. I am sorry I missed Pennsic, for his meals alone.
-Kotori
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Oct 30, 2005 2:48:51 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! I recall running across this business about using the helmet cooking several times in the past, but I have forgotten the sources thereof. Someon, I believe that it was Otagiri dono, at Pennsic pointed out a source, but I failed to write it down. Could someone please remind me of the documentaiton for this practice? If you know my email address, please send a note to me via email. Thank you very much!
Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 30, 2005 7:30:51 GMT -5
...I recall running across this business about using the helmet cooking several times in the past, but I have forgotten the sources thereof...Could someone please remind me of the documentaiton for this practice?... IIRC Turnbull refrences it in a couple of his books, I believe Samurai Sourcebook talks about it. Also check out Secrets of the Samurai, by Oscar Ratti, there is some good information in it, but at the same time there is a whole lot of bad information in it as well. For a serious student of history and samurai culture it can be a funny read. -Takeda |
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 30, 2005 8:51:45 GMT -5
SR Turnbull in The Samurai Sourcebook (ISBN 1-85409-523-4), page 155, shows an illustration from the Zouhyou Monogatari (<1638?) which shows a jingasa being used for cooking. Or you can go to the original ...  kotodama.kokugakuin.ac.jp/digital/diglib/zohyo02/mag3/pages/page021.htmlNote that his jingasa might be the one laying next to him ... he seems to have borrowed one from someone else... |
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Post by Abe Akirakeiko on Oct 31, 2005 23:14:28 GMT -5
I'd *really* like to know what that is he's putting in the pot...I'm sure it's something completely tame but part of me enjoys thinking it's a sickly octopus or a nice plump nezumi or something.
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Solveig Throndardottir
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Post by Solveig Throndardottir on Nov 2, 2005 0:55:43 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I'd *really* like to know what that is he's putting in the pot...I'm sure it's something completely tame but part of me enjoys thinking it's a sickly octopus or a nice plump nezumi or something. He is very likely putting his rice ration in the pot. Another picture associated with the same source illustrates one of these cloth tubelike affairs which appears to be knotted around rice rations. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar |
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Post by solveig on Nov 6, 2005 23:44:25 GMT -5
Otagiri dono!
Greetings from Solveig! You seem to be really good at finding these scanned images of premodern books. Yet, you claim to not read Japanese. What are you doing exactly?
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Nov 7, 2005 0:15:04 GMT -5
Solveig-sensei!
I've gotten somewhat skilled at searching Google images with key kanji. Sometimes I find a page in which I uncover another couple of key kanji which leads me to new searches.
At Pennsic I promised you a recipe for "Japanese Granola." I have just recently found the book and the following two recipes comes from the Bansen Shukai as recorded in The Samurai Sourcebook by Stephen Turnbull.
Thirst Pills
4 monme of the flesh of umeboshi
1 monme of korizato (crystallized or rock sugar)
1 monme of winter wheat
Crush with a stone and make into pills.
Hunger Pills
40 monme of ginseng
80 monme of buckwheat flour
80 monme of wheat flour
80 monme of mountain potato
_4 monme of chickweed
40 monme of yokui (pine) kernels
80 monme of glutenous rice
Mix together and soak in 3 shou of sake for 3 years.
When the mixture is dry, roll into balls the size of a peach.
Three a day should be sufficient rations.
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Post by solveig on Nov 7, 2005 10:05:17 GMT -5
Otagari dono! I've gotten somewhat skilled at searching Google images with key kanji. Sometimes I find a page in which I uncover another couple of key kanji which leads me to new searches. I'll have to give google image searches a try. You are finding things which are not normally accessible even through their home pages. Thank you for the information. I am instinctively suspicious of information derived from ninpou sources. However, I will see if I can find copies of: "Bansen Shukai", "Ninpiden", and "Shoninki Densho" at the University of Toronto this afternoon. I have a few other things I am looking for as well. Although it doesn't have anything to do with food, I am looking for the "Warambegusa" as I seem to have misplaced the copy I made a decade ago. My research projects are always seriously stalled. |
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Post by tengumoon on Nov 23, 2008 4:19:32 GMT -5
Solveig,
did you ever find any of these ninpo source documents?
James
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Post by solveig on Nov 23, 2008 12:35:12 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ...I recall running across this business about using the helmet cooking several times in the past, but I have forgotten the sources thereof...Could someone please remind me of the documentaiton for this practice?... What was posted earlier was iconographic evidence in the form of images taken from a woodblock print book. Also check out Secrets of the Samurai, by Oscar Ratti, there is some good information in it, but at the same time there is a whole lot of bad information in it as well. -Takeda So many people keep referring to this book that I bought a remainder copy a year or two ago. However, it sounded familiar, and indeed it was. I found an old boxed edition packed away in my stuff just in the last month or so. So, now I have two copies. Neither is really worth owning. Regardless, what I was referring to was a set of illustrations one showing a soldier with a bandolier of rice portions and another showing a soldier using his helmet as a cook pot. Woks are not really prevalent in pre-modern Japanese cooking. Nabe are common. |
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Post by solveig on Nov 23, 2008 12:38:43 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Solveig, did you ever find any of these ninpo source documents? James Thank you for the reminder. I should make more of an effort to find them. I really do not recall at this point whether I found them or not. Also, I have relocated a few times since the Toronto trip, so I really do have to search for stuff even if I do have it. And, now that my memory is better jogged, the problem with 忍者 ninja, 忍法 ninpou, and 忍術 ninjutsu is that while these do refer to historical stuff, they have been highly contaminated by modern Japanese and general East Asian fantasy. This stuff is sort of the Japanese answer to those Chinese movies where you see kung fu masters flying through the trees. Regardless, I should make a real effort to find those documents. Maybe they will show up at Cornell. I need to make a trip there fairly soon anyway. |
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I'm trying to keep down on perishables and finding a good way to make rice at camp will be key. The small charcoal grill sounds like an interesting idea. However most camp sites down here in FL are no open fires permitted so I would probably need to tone it down..or just use normal charcoal 
