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Post by ldyanna on Sept 20, 2006 15:19:23 GMT -5
Hi, I am new to this forum, although I do know at least one person here. I have been commissioned to cook a Japanese feast next year for an annual event that will have a Japanese theme. One of the things I am researching is how the feast should be constructed. In the thread about vegetarian cooking someone posted : Regardless, the basic organization for the first tray is rice, soup and three more dishes. You didn't tell us what period you are interested in. However, if you are planning on recreating a relatively early meal, then you also need four condiments one of which is rather controversial. |
This implies to me that there is some sort of formal arrangement of what would be served in each course or "tray". Is this true? Does anyone have information they can point me to so I can do more research? I cannot read Japanese. Also, what is the controversial condiment? Thank you, Anna Serre Cynaguan cook West Kingdom
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 20, 2006 17:36:53 GMT -5
Aha! You found us! ;D Excellent.
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum, Anna Serre is a terrific cook. I know she will outdo herself yet again if you can help her on this matter.
Saionji
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Post by Noriko on Sept 20, 2006 21:10:11 GMT -5
Also, what is the controversial condiment? I believe it is soy sauce. There is evidence that soy sauce or some sort of liquid soy concoction existed in an earlier form during medieval eras. I use it because, while maybe not period, we don't know exactly what this early sauce was like and even if we did, it's probably difficult to make unless you are familar with fementation techniques and won't end up with some mouldy beans. (; Plus you can buy it in the supermarket.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Sept 20, 2006 23:31:14 GMT -5
Welcome Anna! (I had typed a nice long explanation with lots of descriptions but my browser locked up, luckly sparing you all my ramblings, so here is the short version) Sort of, it realy depends on the style of meal and the time frame... Much like there is a diffrence between a formal dinner at Monticello circa 1799, a "Formal" dinner of Lyndon Johnson circa 1960's (he was famous for Texan BBQs),, what a formal dinner at Spaggo's, and how you serve a formal dinner at your home... all of it is American but it varies widely. Mistress Anne Liese has some Japanese feast info from the one her and her husband did in 2002: fibers.destinyslobster.com/Japanese/japindex.htmI'm also guessing soy-sauce (shoyu), but I'm not sure if that is what Solvieg was refering to. There was however an equivilent in period to soysauce (it does still exist but I cannot think of the name of it for the life of me, or a good brand to look for, I know it is available in the US though)... You can duplicate the texture and the flavor easily enough by using a tamari soy-sauce (as opposed to shoyu...and that is not a reference to the brand, but the style) and dissolving dark miso paste into it and letting it set overnight. Basically think of it as a cloudy soy sauce with "some-pulp" the period version was not as filtered as production soysauce is today. -Takeda
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 21, 2006 0:01:03 GMT -5
Almost forgot! Anna Serre, I don't know what the marketing situation is like in your part of the kingdom, but I know a great little Japanese grocery in El Cerrito..... Let me know if you need to hunt down arcane ingredients.
Saionji
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Post by ldyanna on Sept 21, 2006 9:36:35 GMT -5
Thank you. I've studied all the information Mistress Anne Liese has posted on her site. It was difficult to tell exactly how she served her menu though, it sounds like they brought things out as they cooked them so there would be a stream of food from the kitchen. I am fine with that, it makes it easier to prepare.
The autocrat is planning to have some sort of tea ceremony before the dinner. Also I do know that the Baroness would be more comfortable if the food was not predominately fish. I don't know if that would put the feast into an early time period or a later one.
Saionji, thank you for your kind offer. I am very lucky that Sacramento has a large asian population. There are several very good grocery stores here, even one strip mall dedicated entirely to asian shoppers. My problem may be narrowing down the ingredients I want to use, not finding them!
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Post by Noriko on Sept 21, 2006 10:36:07 GMT -5
Also I do know that the Baroness would be more comfortable if the food was not predominately fish. I don't know if that would put the feast into an early time period or a later one. According to Anna Liesse's page, the Japanese also ate wild game and birds. Substitute from the meat aisle at your supermarket as you wish. Unless you're holding a vegetarian/vegan event in which tofu is your best friend. Speaking of which, I've also come up with a tofu dish that looks and tastes a lot like meat- well, I'm not exactly how or why it tastes like meat, it's more like gristle with the marinade still on it. Pretty good eatin' though If you want, I'll post the recipe.
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Post by ldyanna on Sept 21, 2006 11:19:38 GMT -5
I would love any and all recipes. I've done some modern Japanese cooking but I'm an Italian lady (in the SCA) and Italian cooking is what I specialize in.
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Post by Noriko on Sept 21, 2006 12:30:53 GMT -5
As you wish (;
Noriko's Happy Tofu
Ingredients 1 block of firm tofu, pressed to drain of excess water 4 tablespoons of mirin 4 tablespoons of soy sauce 2 tablespoons of brown sugar 1/4-1/2 teaspoon of garlic (the stuff that comes in a glass container)
1. Cut tofu into a little bit larger than bite size pieces 2. In a small frying pan, grease with oil and add about a fourth of a teaspoon of garlic, more if you're a garlic fiend like some of my friends. Put on a low heat. 3. In a separate bowl, mix mirin, soy sauce and brown sugar. Stir throughly to make sure the brown sugar has disolved. 4. Pour the mixture into the frying pan and wait for it to simmer. Then place tofu into the pan. Coat the tofu thoroughly with the mixture and let it simmer for 15 or so minutes, mixing it up every couple of minutes to allow for even cooking. The tofu should be done when it starts sticking to the bottom of the pan or starts to be a little tough or most of the mixture has evaporated. Use your best judegement (; 5. Serve with white rice and a nice green vegetable. Sesame seeds make for a good garnish.
Serves three normal eaters or two voracious ones.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Sept 21, 2006 12:46:27 GMT -5
...it sounds like they brought things out as they cooked them ...I am fine with that, it makes it easier to prepare. It certainly does. There is alot of variation between formal court banquet style, and other more commonplace styles of meals. In the imperial palace (as well as some provincal palaces) the kitchees were far removed form the serving areas, quite often food achived room temperature by the time it was served. Some dishes which are required to be served piping hot were either served in lidded bowls to keep the heat, or would be brought near the dining room in heavy ceramic pots (donabe) and dished up just out of the room on a side-board. I believe that the staging area/sideboard would have "hotplates" small braisiers with coals form the kitchen, to help keep things warm or to heat sake or tea. I have seen one scroll where you can see servers hanging around (and up to shennagans) in a little room or hall off where you see the nobility sitting around at a dinner. For the life of me I can;t find the image. (Does it ring a bell Saionji, oh goddess of the graphic post?? ) You can do a whole meal without fish if you so choose, but bounty of the waters is pretty japanese. If you are planning a formal or semi-formal Japanese banquet,regardelss of the timeframe,(meaning one that would be served for nobility, high ministers, daimyo but not at the imperial palace... a dinner from a jr minister to a superior for example) You should select a widely varied menu of "main dishes" Fish, fowl, "game" and particular vegetable dishes. Each person's portion of an entree will be quite small, sort of like a sampler or an appitizer. Rice should be generaously served in abundance, soups (broths) should be an ever present accompanyment with each course. Hearty soups/stews should offset an entre moreso than a broth/soup. Try not to flavor too similar within a course, there should be variety, but should not clash either. If each course has only a fish dish, either stew or entree, but also has fowl, "game" or veggies/tofu everyone will be able to eat a portion of each course and not feel hungry or bored while awaiting the next course. -Takeda
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 21, 2006 17:53:36 GMT -5
I have seen one scroll where you can see servers hanging around (and up to shennagans) in a little room or hall off where you see the nobility sitting around at a dinner. For the life of me I can;t find the image. (Does it ring a bell Saionji, oh goddess of the graphic post?? ) Afraid not, O Red Eyed Demon Of The Kitchen. See? I DON'T know everything. I don't know where people get these ideas. S.
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Post by solveig on Sept 22, 2006 0:28:49 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! TThe autocrat is planning to have some sort of tea ceremony before the dinner. The cannonical order for Chaji is to have the meal first, then a sake ceremony, and then the tea ceremony which is in two parts. Fish is pretty much inescapable in East Asia. A large whole fish in front of each person is the East Asian equivalent of a 24 pound turkey at Thanksgiving. The real issue with getting meat into the meal is to pick a reason d'etre for your feast which would involve eating meat. So for example, a day at a Buddhist monestery is right out unless everyone wants to do strict vegitarianism. Ahh ye of little imagination. There are ingredients which can be difficult to obtain in Tokyo, Japan. As for order of service. Several meals are illustrated in Yamanouchi Ryorisho which is included in volume 19-GE of ZGR. (ISBN: 4-7971-0077-X) As for the mystery condiment. The controversial condiment is a milk product. Various authorities claim that it was a type of butter and others that it was a type of cheese. Yet another authority holds that it was condensed milk. I suspect that it was probably a cultured milk product similar to yoghurt or clotted cream. The reasons for this are several. Some sort of microbal action is likely, and the stuff is depicted in a row of three other condiments including such things as a dish of sea salt and a dish of vinegar. I'm forgetting what the fourth condiment dish contained at the moment. As for the antiquity of soy sauce. Please consider how long Kikkoman has been in business. In fact, Japan has been exporting soy sauce to Europe since the middle of the Edo period. It is also an important constituent of Worchestershire Sauce. Regardless, Watanabe in Nihon Shoku Sekatsu Shi (ISBN 4-642-07309-4) introduces soy sauce in his section on the Muromachi period. He speculates that it originated as a byproduct of miso production, but also notes that its origin is unclear.
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Post by ldyanna on Sept 22, 2006 11:01:24 GMT -5
Greetings wise forum members,
Thank you for all the information I have received so far.
Please note that I will be serving fish at the feast. I had informed them that it was not very probable to do a Japanese feast without fish. But I will be including chicken, pork and probably a bit of beef. They are only concerned in the tastiness of the meal. I am the only one concerned with the authenticity, but I am also only a humble caterer and must keep my Baroness client happy or I will not be allowed to prepare the 2008 feast.
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Post by solveig on Sept 22, 2006 15:09:17 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! But I will be including chicken, pork and probably a bit of beef. They are only concerned in the tastiness of the meal. I am the only one concerned with the authenticity, but I am also only a humble caterer and must keep my Baroness client happy or I will not be allowed to prepare the 2008 feast. Interestingly enough, prohibition of consumption of domesticated animals was the most common prohibition. Regardless, if you are interested in pork, then I suggest pork liver kushiyaki (kabobs). You can also make chicken white meat kushiyaki (kabobs). Tonkatsu (pork cutlets) is pretty much modern.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Nov 3, 2008 23:10:08 GMT -5
sorry for bringing this post back from the dead, but i am curious about something, and i will be conducting an asian-style feast in a year. (yes, i start early) Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! But I will be including chicken, pork and probably a bit of beef. They are only concerned in the tastiness of the meal. I am the only one concerned with the authenticity, but I am also only a humble caterer and must keep my Baroness client happy or I will not be allowed to prepare the 2008 feast. Interestingly enough, prohibition of consumption of domesticated animals was the most common prohibition. Regardless, if you are interested in pork, then I suggest pork liver kushiyaki (kabobs). You can also make chicken white meat kushiyaki (kabobs). Tonkatsu (pork cutlets) is pretty much modern. how would the aforementioned kabobs be prepared solveig-dono?
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