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Sake
Feb 7, 2008 14:54:14 GMT -5
Post by inume on Feb 7, 2008 14:54:14 GMT -5
Exactly. I have brewed beer for almost 10 years now, and as long as you treat homebrewing like canning, you're good to go. If everything's disinfected properly you're good to go. If a seal on a bottle isn't right and bad bugs get in, you'll know by the smell (ick) or the look (eew!) When in doubt, throw it out.
However, I've never done any distilling, which is usually when good times go bad - it's not legal (AFAIK) and even if you do it right, the percentage of alcohol created is flammable (which is where you get the exploding stills thing from).
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 0:54:23 GMT -5
Post by solveig on Feb 9, 2008 0:54:23 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! since the bubbly texture adds a sweetness that hides most of the alcohol-y ness An interesting response since the sensors activated by carbonation are supposed to be the same as those activated by caspicium (sp). Basically, these are pain sensors.
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 13:49:29 GMT -5
Post by Water_Tengu on Feb 9, 2008 13:49:29 GMT -5
caspicium, what is that
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 14:17:08 GMT -5
Post by Noriko on Feb 9, 2008 14:17:08 GMT -5
Capsaicin is a compound found in chili peppers that causes that "holy crud that's hot... ow ow ow" sensation. Indeed, opening up a bottle of seltzer and taking that first sip can be painful but sparkling sake has a bubbliness more akin to that of a delicate champaign, adding a pleasant sweet tang, as opposed to the needle pain of an explosive fizzy sodapop some people experience. YMMV. Everyone's sense of taste and mouthfeel can vary widely.
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 14:39:03 GMT -5
Post by Water_Tengu on Feb 9, 2008 14:39:03 GMT -5
aah, ok. So it is the chemical held in the seeds of the pepper. But i am confused about the sparkling sake. Sake is technically a beer, so is it possible to make a generally accepted beer (such as say Budweiser) be sparkling as well (not to say you would ever want to).
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 17:33:34 GMT -5
Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Feb 9, 2008 17:33:34 GMT -5
Sake is closer to being a wine than a beer, because it is (typically) not carbonated.
- Imagawa
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 18:05:45 GMT -5
Post by inume on Feb 9, 2008 18:05:45 GMT -5
IMO, it's the alcohol content (11% and up) that makes sake closer to beer. Beer yeast typically 'shuts off' at no more then 7 - 8%, while wine yeast allows you to get your brew to the 11 - 13% range. You are correct, Imagawa-dono, but for different reasons then you think. ;D
What makes sake hard to classify is that it is brewed from grains (not fruit or honey) like a beer, but the method and yeast type seem to be more like winemaking (beer only takes a week to run a fermentation cycle, wine takes a bit longer).
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 18:38:01 GMT -5
Post by Saionji Shonagon on Feb 9, 2008 18:38:01 GMT -5
Last time I checked, beer was made from grain, specifically malted barley.
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Sake
Feb 9, 2008 21:35:19 GMT -5
Post by Water_Tengu on Feb 9, 2008 21:35:19 GMT -5
IMO, it's the alcohol content (11% and up) that makes sake closer to beer. Beer yeast typically 'shuts off' at no more then 7 - 8%, while wine yeast allows you to get your brew to the 11 - 13% range. You are correct, Imagawa-dono, but for different reasons then you think. ;D What makes sake hard to classify is that it is brewed from grains (not fruit or honey) like a beer, but the method and yeast type seem to be more like winemaking (beer only takes a week to run a fermentation cycle, wine takes a bit longer). That is what i heard from my brewing teacher. yes, rice is a grain. Technically beer can be any grain, including bread wheat. (not a good idea by the way)
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Sake
Feb 10, 2008 8:34:13 GMT -5
Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Feb 10, 2008 8:34:13 GMT -5
Ok, not a fermenter myself but love organic chemistry and language origins for study.
Sake translates as alcohol, specifically grain based fermented products... While you would get funny looks if you called beer sake in Japan, it is technically correct. Kinda like ordering "cola" in the states... people usually specify further than that.
The translation of sake as rice-wine is a European phenomena, and seems to have come as a result of Portuguese/Spanish translation efforts. In comparison Dutch accounts of the cloudy sake, point to a more beer like viewpoint. Apparently it was liked by the Dutch at the trading embassy, for its palette similarities to some of the more rustic unfiltered beers that the low countries are fond of, but tend to sour or spoil if shipped long distance. (note, web sources were used in the formulation of my opinion, veracity uncertain, but plausible and at the moment I cannot find the link to check the author's source)
By the definitions of alcohol production types sake is a "beer" specifically it is fermented from starch converted to sugar.
Wines fermentation is from juice from plants or fruits.
Malted barley is a usual starter for "beers" the impurities left by the malting process, help prohibit unwanted yeast strains but allow the correct ones... this is why it became the default starter. (a similar factor occurs with grapes, which is why many recipes for wines start with a grape starter)
-Takeda
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Sake
Feb 10, 2008 12:52:49 GMT -5
Post by inume on Feb 10, 2008 12:52:49 GMT -5
Right.
Brewed with ingrediants like beer, with the same alcohol level as a wine - the one thing that we can agree on is that sake is uniquely Japanese. ;D
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bovil
New Member
Fnord. Moo.
Posts: 411
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Sake
Feb 10, 2008 15:46:33 GMT -5
Post by bovil on Feb 10, 2008 15:46:33 GMT -5
aah, ok. So it is the chemical held in the seeds of the pepper. It's a chemical produced by glands in the pepper fruit (yes, plants have glands). It's most concentrated in the inner membranes on the "ribs" and on the surface of the seeds.
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Sake
Feb 10, 2008 21:34:15 GMT -5
Post by Water_Tengu on Feb 10, 2008 21:34:15 GMT -5
aah, ok. So it is the chemical held in the seeds of the pepper. It's a chemical produced by glands in the pepper fruit (yes, plants have glands). It's most concentrated in the inner membranes on the "ribs" and on the surface of the seeds. aah, ok
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Sake
Feb 11, 2008 1:33:29 GMT -5
Post by Saiaiko on Feb 11, 2008 1:33:29 GMT -5
When I entered my sake in the Ice Dragon last year, I put it in the category of beer as it is a beverage made from grain rather than fruit. This is where the similarity ends. While beer and sake both undergo a primary and secondary fermentation process, sake does both simultaneously. The grains in beer are converted (malted) to sugar in the first process and then fermented in a separate second process. Rice in sake is converted to sugar by koji and then to alcohol by yeast nearly simultaneously (accounting for an initial period of lag time). It's quite a unique process and one that lends itself easily to manipulation. The doubly-occurring fermentation means that more rice can be added at any time in the process and that a finished batch can be added to more rice as a starter. So, not just uniquely Japanese, but unique in its creation. Well, unique for now.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Sake
Feb 11, 2008 1:47:55 GMT -5
Post by Saionji Shonagon on Feb 11, 2008 1:47:55 GMT -5
Damn, Hime. Now I'm wishing I had a bigger kitchen.
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