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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Mar 22, 2007 15:38:47 GMT -5
Since about 1893 or 1894, small quantities of excellent peaches and pears - presumably from American stock - have been raised at Kawasaki, near Yokohama, to suppy foreigners' tables. None such are to be obtained in the country at large. The native nashi, though generally translated as "pear," is quite a different fruit - round, wooden, and flavorless; the native peach is a first-cousin to a brickbat. Of the apple, which only became common towards the close of the century, a wooden variety is grown. There are few cherries (despite the wealth of cherry-blossom), no raspberries, no currants, scarcely any gooseberries, no mulberries (although the land is dotted with mulberry bushes to feed the silkworms), no tropical fruit of any sort. Figs are scarce and poor, grapes are not abundant except in the single province of Koshu, strawberries neither good nor abundant, plums and apricots mediocre, the Japanese medlars ( biwa) not to be compared with those of Southern Europe. The best fruits here are the orange, one or two kinds of melon, and - for those that like it - the persimmon, though it, too, shares in the woodeness and course flavour characteristic of Japanese fruits. Probably two causes have led to the result noticed. The first is founded on the climate, the best-flavoured fruits being produced in dry climates, whereas in Japan the heat and wet come together, and make fruit rot instead of mellowing. Thus European stock, which has improved in America and Australia, rapidly deteriorates in Japan. The second cause - itself partly dependent on the first - is that the national taste for fruit is unformed, fruit never having been here regarded as a regular article of diet, and circumstances having accustomed the Japanese to prefer such fruit as they do take should be hard. - Basil Hall Chamberlain Things Japanese. Being Notes on Various Subjects Connected with Japan., 1902 Google Books
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Mar 22, 2007 16:06:10 GMT -5
So if you cut through the judgements ... I think you get"
apricots ( 実梅 miume or 杏 anzu) loquats (medlars) ( 枇杷 biwa ) melon ( 瓜 uri ) orange ( 八朔 Hassaku orange or 橘 tachibana ) pears ( 梨 nashi ) peaches ( 桃 momo ) persimmon ( 柿 kaki ) plum (梅 ume )
not mentioned ... bitter orange ( 橙 daidai - natsudaidai is somewhat like grapefruit)
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Mar 22, 2007 16:53:23 GMT -5
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Post by Kitabatake Genjiro Katsunari on Mar 23, 2007 14:10:35 GMT -5
I noticed that the artical refers to the fruit as being wooden, and flavorless, but I really find one should take into acount many japanese foods have very subtle flavors that if ones tongue is not accustomed "lack flavor". I rather like the flavor of japanese pear
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 23, 2007 15:40:59 GMT -5
Note the date (1902) and the writer (British) - if he was raised on treacle tarts and trifle, I imagine that a subtle Japanese pear just wasn't sweet ENOUGH.
I buy and consume Bartletts when they're like rocks. Ripe peaches are usually too mushy for me. Fruit should not be mushy.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Apr 4, 2007 11:05:03 GMT -5
It always amuses me when a Brit is critiquing food... especially from the turn of the century...
-Takeda
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Post by elpresto on May 20, 2007 16:55:42 GMT -5
Reminds me of when my mom had her first experience with American fruit. She was so excited that the prices were lower than in Japan... Then she took a bite of the "mushy-rotten" pear she'd bought. She as since learned to appreciate a nice, juicy pear, but boy what an initial let-down.
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madyaas
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Post by madyaas on Jun 27, 2007 15:01:21 GMT -5
I don't really understand why they call Biwa a "Japanese medlar" other than being within the same subtribe (Biwa is Eriobotrya japonica). The fruit doesn't look like the medlar, and it doesn't need the same treatment as medlars do either. It can be eaten fresh or cooked. Of course they don't compare,
What I find funny is that the variety "Champagne" is a Japanese variety introduced to California in 1908 and is said to have an excellent flavor, and that excerpt was written only a few years before. There are also 800 varieties in East Asia, and there are 46 important cultivars in Japan. I've seen the Champagne variety sold at a nursery here.
Mr. Chamberlain must have had a seedling grown wild persimmon because none of the cultivars i've ever had are woody. If you've had a fully ripe astringent persimmon (which becomes non-astringent), you know how jelly-like and rich the fruit is. Probably one of the best fruits I've ever tasted ( almost couldn't finish all of the ones I bought because of the richness).
I can see an incredible amount of European bias, especially the crack about Japan's climate "rotting" fruit. Alright Basil, whatever you say. I can see him trying to look for plants exactly like he finds in Europe, it's like comparting apples to oranges.
I've noticed that with European fruits, intensity of flavor and sugars is the ideal while with some of the Japanese fruits (or at least pomme fruits of Japanese varieties), flavor is a lot more subtle and sugars less pronounced.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Oct 29, 2007 15:46:08 GMT -5
as far as my research into far eastern tastes (this includes korea, china, and parts of malaysia) goes, it seems to be that subtlety is pushed, rather than shoving a bunch of taste and spice down your throat. culinary art is truly art there rather than just a part of life, like it is in the west. But thailand seems to revolutionize that, and there native dishes seem to push spice, much like the indians
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Oct 29, 2007 19:40:51 GMT -5
I buy and consume Bartletts when they're like rocks. Oh yeah. When they eat like an apple (drool). Hmmm... I have to go to the store later anyways.... It always amuses me when a Brit is critiquing food... What do you expect from the land of haggis and lager? The British palate is not one that appreciates subtlety. (I lived there for two years - I know). as far as my research into far eastern tastes (this includes korea, china, and parts of malaysia) goes, it seems to be that subtlety is pushed, rather than shoving a bunch of taste and spice down your throat. culinary art is truly art there rather than just a part of life, like it is in the west. I might argue the "like it is in the West" part, but otherwise yes I totally agree. It drives me nuts when my friends and I go out for Japanese/Chinese - the good stuff, not take-out... they'll put sugar in their green tea or order soda, and they'll just dump soy sauce and stuff all over their food as soon as they get it without tasting it first. Of course, I usually border on having a meltdown because they don't appreciate subtlety and delicate flavors/textures, and the words "uncultured heathens" (or something similar) can normally be heard coming from my end of the table repeatedly during dinner. I have managed to educate some of them, and we're working on the others. - Rich
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Post by Water_Tengu on Oct 29, 2007 20:03:45 GMT -5
hahahahahahahah
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Oct 29, 2007 20:16:59 GMT -5
I might argue the "like it is in the West" part, but otherwise yes I totally agree. It drives me nuts when my friends and I go out for Japanese/Chinese - the good stuff, not take-out... they'll put sugar in their green tea or order soda, and they'll just dump soy sauce and stuff all over their food as soon as they get it without tasting it first. Of course, I usually border on having a meltdown because they don't appreciate subtlety and delicate flavors/textures, and the words "uncultured heathens" (or something similar) can normally be heard coming from my end of the table repeatedly during dinner. I have managed to educate some of them, and we're working on the others. I'll admit that I just recently (well, in the last year) learned that it's proper sushi etiquette to pick up nigiri with the fingers, flip it upside-down and dip the fish side... ...but the rest of what you're describing is just basic bad sense. You've got to at least taste things to figure out what and/or how much condiments and seasoning-adjustments are necessary.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Oct 29, 2007 20:20:02 GMT -5
yes, it is a bad american thing that many do without even thinking
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Oct 29, 2007 20:27:59 GMT -5
as far as my research into far eastern tastes (this includes korea, china, and parts of malaysia) goes, it seems to be that subtlety is pushed, rather than shoving a bunch of taste and spice down your throat. culinary art is truly art there rather than just a part of life, like it is in the west. But thailand seems to revolutionize that, and there native dishes seem to push spice, much like the indians There are plenty of Asian cuisines that favor very strong flavors, and not just those in the southeast. Yunnan, Hunan and Sichuan cuisines in China are known for very hot and spicy dishes. I've had incredibly (and in some cases, nearly inedibly) hot and spicy Korean, Vietnamese and Mongolian food... ...and then there's kimchi. I can still remember this home-made kimchi that this Mongolian chef made for his special customers (a friend was dating his daughter) that looked like it was coated in red glitter because of all the spices involved. It was divine.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Oct 29, 2007 20:36:03 GMT -5
I'll admit that I just recently (well, in the last year) learned that it's proper sushi etiquette to pick up nigiri with the fingers, flip it upside-down and dip the fish side... Hehehe well then apparently I've been doing it wrong. Fingers, you say? I just pick it up with chopsticks and eat it (I don't use soy sauce - don't like it and can't have the salt). ...but the rest of what you're describing is just basic bad sense. You've got to at least taste things to figure out what and/or how much condiments and seasoning-adjustments are necessary. I can agree with that. Or... if you're like me, everything tastes just fine as it is. I'm a food purist of sorts... I'm not really one for adding stuff or using condiments. - Rich
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