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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Oct 19, 2007 13:50:20 GMT -5
What do my fellow Nihonjin use as feastware?
I'm guessing a medium size plate, a rice bowl, good chopsticks, and some manner of drinking vessel (I don't know what would be an appropriate cup/glass/mug for that).
- Rich
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 19, 2007 13:58:29 GMT -5
Look at the little green toolbar up near the top of your screen. There's a search module up there. It is most useful! tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=research&action=display&thread=1189472295 includes a previous discussion of this subject. I usually feast as my European alter ego because eating in public is like, ew! On the one occasion I did feast as Saionji, I had a pottery "tea bowl" to drink from, half a dozen plastic "laquer" bowls, chopsticks and a plain white linen napkin.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Oct 19, 2007 14:05:23 GMT -5
This was a spontaneous, "oh, while I'm thinking of it...." type post that I threw together real quick while I had the question in mind. You are correct, Makiwara-dono, I should have searched first. - Rich
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Post by Noriko on Oct 19, 2007 14:09:17 GMT -5
I used to take a ceramic bowl, ceramic cup and chopsticks with me but ever since my ceramic bowl broke, I switched over to a bamboo bowl. I also invested in a chopstick box which may or may not be period but it keeps them together and from getting tossed around in a pack.
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Post by solveig on Oct 20, 2007 9:04:56 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! What period are you most interested in recreating? However, if you are interested in generic traditional here is an idea about a minimum.
1. You need two (ideally covered and ideally lacqcuerware) bowls. The one on the left is for rice and the one on the right is for soup.
2. You need at least three more dishes which depending upon the exact period and style of meal can vary in shape and construction. For Zen Buddhist temple use, you would have a collection of bowls which would nest inside each other. These would be stored sort of wrapped in a cloth. It's hard to describe and I only did one of these zen temple overnight events. Regardless, the total number of bowls, dishes, &c must be odd.
3. The minimum Japanese meal is pretty much, rice, soup, and pickled vegetables. This is the meal that Sei Shonagon was disgusted by. A more or less stereotypical minimum meal for someone who is not poor consists of rice, soup, and three more dishes. After that, depending on the style of service, you may have to go to additional trays. The first tray will have an odd number of dishes and the remaining trays will each have an even number of dishes.
Now then, I assume that you want to deal with Western feasts. There are two approaches to this. One is to adopt the style of the feast itself. This is generally quite practical as most feasts do not serve food which is fit to be eaten in the Japanese manner. The second approach is to bring your bowls and attempt to place food into your bowls in such a manner so as to eat it in a Japanese manner.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Oct 20, 2007 15:08:47 GMT -5
Now then, I assume that you want to deal with Western feasts. There are two approaches to this. One is to adopt the style of the feast itself. This is generally quite practical as most feasts do not serve food which is fit to be eaten in the Japanese manner. The second approach is to bring your bowls and attempt to place food into your bowls in such a manner so as to eat it in a Japanese manner. This is basically what I had in mind, yes. I was figuring out what I needed to be able to attend a Western feast and eat in the Japanese manner (or as Japanese as can be managed). I am a vegetarian, so I don't really see a need for a knife as I'm not going to be cutting meat or anything. Anything else can be handled with chopsticks or a spoon, in my opinion. Or fingers (in the case of bread and pastries). - Rich
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 20, 2007 23:18:51 GMT -5
(paraphrased)There are two ways to deal with Western feasts. Adopt the style of the feast itself, or bring your bowls and to place food into so as to eat it in a Japanese manner. I have to agree with Solvieg on this, either stick to your guns (and oft-times struggle wth eating) or "when in Rome..." Unfortuneatly there is no real way to do "middle ground" I am a vegetarian, so I don't really see a need for a knife as I'm not going to be cutting meat or anything Well non-Japanese veggies can be a bit tricky... some can be as hard to cut as meat... we are not talking about modern cooking after all. I have modified my original feast kit (and need to re-update again) I've Nobunaga-ized it. (Nobunaga it seems was a fan of trying out some western imports) Here is an example of what my standard feast kit contains for one individual. I eat the dishes that can be eaten Japanese as Japanese, and the dishes best served in the Western manner, in the Western manner. 3 small "lacquered" bowls 2 "lacquered" trays/plates 1 large "lacquered" bowl 1 wester drinking vessle (usualy a mug) 2 Hashi (a spare in case there is realy messy-sticky foods) 1 sharp late 1500's personal/eating knife 1 three tined fork scrap of muslin for napkin (cloth is nicer than paper, and it is so cheap you can pitch it if it get too yucky) I am thinking of adding a nice wooden tencher and a spoon, and I realy want to find a suitable glass goblet like the 1560s-70s dutch cut class tradeware. I thought my kit had it pretty much covered, but after the last feast, I found out that: A. I did not have enough "dish room" to seperate out things that should have been kept seperate... (interesting taste combinations) and B. Japanese feast gear takes up about 1 square foot more than you usualy wind up with in front of you at an SCA feast. Historically if you were at a feast (either Western or Japanese), you would typically be important enough to have your gear cleared between courses, or have enough space to leave the empties on the table., this just does not happen in the SCA (unless you are at high table and have your own retinue who will wait on you.) -Takeda
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Post by Noriko on Oct 21, 2007 21:09:16 GMT -5
B. Japanese feast gear takes up about 1 square foot more than you usualy wind up with in front of you at an SCA feast. Or you end up dragging up several bowls on a tray for each item ('cause once you sit down after a potluck style feast, you have to wait in line again or miss losing out on limited foodstuffs). I couldn't find a feasable tray (i.e. one that fit in my pack[1]) so I just put everything in one bowl. But I do eat with chopsticks and have a lot of fun with it. I think I've eaten everything from Ember Day Tart to vinegared onions with chopsticks! Then again, as a vegetarian, I haven't had to worry about hunks of meat... Also, a good non-period piece of feast gear is a plastic bag for your gear afterwards so you don't end up with vittle bits on everything (; [1]If anyone knows where you can get those cute basket backpacks...
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 21, 2007 21:56:00 GMT -5
[1]If anyone knows where you can get those cute basket backpacks... It's New Englandy chipwood design, but he does have three different sizes and he merchants at some of the big wars.... www.thebasketman.com/
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madyaas
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Post by madyaas on Oct 21, 2007 23:25:03 GMT -5
[1]If anyone knows where you can get those cute basket backpacks... It's New Englandy chipwood design, but he does have three different sizes and he merchants at some of the big wars.... www.thebasketman.com/Or, perhaps something more "asian" in look (although not Japanese) tinyurl.com/yomrbs
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 22, 2007 0:33:22 GMT -5
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Post by solveig on Oct 22, 2007 0:38:01 GMT -5
Noble Cousins!
Greeting from Solveig! The Japanese notion of back packs seems to me at least to tend more toward wooden boxes and wooden pack frames than it does toward woven basketry.
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Post by Noriko on Oct 22, 2007 11:03:17 GMT -5
Noble Cousins! Greeting from Solveig! The Japanese notion of back packs seems to me at least to tend more toward wooden boxes and wooden pack frames than it does toward woven basketry. Hm, do you have any pictures of these devices? Unfortunately, I'm not too handy with a woodshop so my work bag (canvas/cotton messenger bag in dusky grey) will have to do...
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Post by roninpenguin on Oct 23, 2007 21:13:31 GMT -5
Noble Cousins! Greeting from Solveig! The Japanese notion of back packs seems to me at least to tend more toward wooden boxes and wooden pack frames than it does toward woven basketry. Hm, do you have any pictures of these devices? Unfortunately, I'm not too handy with a woodshop so my work bag (canvas/cotton messenger bag in dusky grey) will have to do... Most Kurosawa movies will have at least one person in the background carrying one. If I had time I would Google search for you. Maybe if I get back and no one has done it yet...
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Jan 27, 2008 14:56:03 GMT -5
If you all are still looking for boxes for carrying things, you might want to look at this: This belongs to Lord Kuji Kaoni Musashi, who plays a yamabushi persona. He has it set up as a portable shrine, but he also carries travel-related things in it. I thought it might serve as a good example to make a template from. It is roughly about 18" wide x 28" high x 12" deep (bear in mind I "eyeballed" it while I was talking to him; I did not actually measure it). - Imagawa
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