bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 16, 2008 20:36:55 GMT -5
I'll give bovil a nudge to have a look at this - I remember him picking up a couple of books on pickles when we were at Obon and he can give you an idea what they're like. The bad news: I haven't tried any of the recipes in the books yet. Quick and Easy Tsukemono is one of the books I bought. It's all about getting tsukemono without the wait. I don't remember the title of the other one, but it does emphasize traditional process rather than quick process.Scratch that. It's the fairly traditional process book. The second book is Easy Japanese Pickling in Five Minutes to One Day. It's cool because it suggests alternatives to traditional pickling vessels for shorter marinating times. Consider trying prepared live nuka (available at some Japanese markets). I'm thinking that when I finally get around to trying nukazuke that I'll start with prepared rather than "straight" nuka. Getting your fingers in the bran seems to be an important part of the process either way, giving you a literal feel for the condition of your nuka bed and your nukazuke. It also makes sure you get familiar with the smell of the bed and recognize if it's going bad.
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Post by Noriko on Sept 16, 2008 22:30:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I kind of squirmed at tossing my nuka bran with my fingers. I did it a few times but I mostly just sort of stirred it up with a rice paddle[1]. Anyway, what I did have was in a bag and needed one to add salt, water and various food scraps to add microbes and season it (apple peels, etc.).
[1]I have, like, three of those things.
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Post by takadainotora on Sept 16, 2008 23:21:14 GMT -5
The most reliable recipe I've found for daikon pickles calls slicing them and saltingng them lightly (2-3% by weight), letting them sit under weight or a press for half an hour, then pouring off the liquid, giving them a quick rinse and dry and then putting the vinegar/sugar solution on them. At that point, you can either press/weight them at room temperature for a few hours then eat, or weight/press them in the fridge for the next day or later. Very nice if you add a little chile or dry chipotle or shichimi togarashi.
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 17, 2008 0:53:14 GMT -5
I got home and found my books. Yes, I've got Quick & Easy Tsukemono and Easy Japanese Pickling in Five Minutes to One Day both. Yeah, I kind of squirmed at tossing my nuka bran with my fingers. I did it a few times but I mostly just sort of stirred it up with a rice paddle. If you're worried about the "gross factor" or about contaminating your nuka bed, get a costco pack of unpowdered nitrile gloves and wear one on the hand you're using to stir. Both books indicate that it's important to get fresh air into the nuka. If you were shaking the container while it was sealed, that won't mix fresh air into the nuka. Anyway, what I did have was in a bag and needed one to add salt, water and various food scraps to add microbes and season it (apple peels, etc.). That sounds like the traditional scratch method. With instant nuka, you just open the package, add your flavoring vegetables (kombu, at least), and start making nukazuke. It's already got the live cultures necessary. Instant nuka is sold under the "Nuka-Doko" (in tubs) and "Nukazuke no Moto" (in bags) brands.
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 17, 2008 1:03:29 GMT -5
Probably a little bit of both- I also got kind of lazy about mixing it. Since the bran was in a tupperware container, I just picked it up and shook it. I'm going to ask a really stupid question here: You left the lid off on your nuka bed, right? Or did you just set the lid on the top without sealing it? If the tupperware is sealed, it's going to create an anaerobic environment, and that can allow bad cultures to take root. I also noticed something digging through the thread... I don't believe you're supposed to dry daikon for nukazuke; that technique is for takuan. You want the moisture in the diakon so it can contribute some moisture back to the nuka bed.
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Post by Noriko on Sept 17, 2008 10:29:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I left the lid on. I thought this was what one was supposed to do to keep out pests, mold etc. And yes, I did dry the daikon out, though it was still pretty moist and bendy when I put it in.
I think I was also confused thinking that takuan = nukazuke daikon. That's... obviously not the case. (:
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 17, 2008 12:51:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I left the lid on. I thought this was what one was supposed to do to keep out pests, mold etc. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the chemistry (and the regular mixing) of a nukadoko is what keeps molds from sprouting. The good cultures pretty much keep out the bad ones. I've been digging for information on nukadoko containers, but this is one of the areas that's not always well-documented. The traditional wooden tub is, of course, well-documented. It also doesn't seal tightly, and lets a lot of air flow through. Modern enamel pots used for nukadoko look to have little vents in the lid to allow airflow. I haven't seen any information on covering the plastic tubs that "Nuka-Doko" brand instant nuka comes in; Ogawa doesn't talk at all about covers in Easy Japanese Pickling.
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Post by Noriko on Sept 17, 2008 13:33:24 GMT -5
Well, I guess I could give it another shot but just put the lid balanced on the top. The Internet says that you could put a cheesecloth and a rubber band on the top. I got another bag from the Asian mart (I live down the street from one[1]) and toasted it this time. Smells much nicer at least, like pop corn. I'm going home this weekend so it's gonna have to ride in the car and come with (; At least the pet rats can stay by themselves over the weekend...
[1]The proprietress calls me Ume-chan because I'm always getting umeboshi rice balls. She did give me a bit of a weird look this time though perhaps because I had already popped by on my daily errands (out of ramen). On the other hand, she's a little hard to read and is probably a sweet lady.... anyway....
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 17, 2008 14:56:42 GMT -5
Well, I guess I could give it another shot but just put the lid balanced on the top. The Internet says that you could put a cheesecloth and a rubber band on the top. Lint-free cloth sounds like a good solution (don't want to lint up your nukadoko). I got another bag from the Asian mart (I live down the street from one[1]) and toasted it this time. Smells much nicer at least, like pop corn. I'm at work without my books, but from what I remember, roasted/toasted is the way to go.
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 18, 2008 14:34:33 GMT -5
I think I was also confused thinking that takuan = nukazuke daikon. That's... obviously not the case. (: I see where the confusion comes in. One of my books equates takuan with nukazuke, but that's misleading. The nukazuke process is relatively quick (a few hours to 1-3 days, once the nukadoko is live) and uses a live bed of nuka that's mixed up regularly. It also uses fresh (or in some cases blanched) vegetables. Takuan uses nuka, but not a live nuka bed that you spend a few weeks preparing. Takuan is a "let it sit and ferment for 1-3 months" pickle, not one that requires daily tending. You just build alternating layers of nuka and dried whole daikon, weight it, and keep an eye on the liquid level in the bucket.
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Post by Noriko on Sept 21, 2008 19:15:54 GMT -5
Ah. I'll probably still put some daikon in the mix, because I like it.
Also, I was thinking. The main cultures in nukadoko are yeast and lactobacili. Since I am making it from scratch, without the 'seed' of someone else's nukadoko, I was wondering if I should inoculate my mix with a very small spot of yogurt or, better, miso. I also have dried yeast somewhere in my pantry. Any thoughts?
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Sept 21, 2008 20:49:25 GMT -5
Ah. I'll probably still put some daikon in the mix, because I like it. There's nothing wrong with daikon nukazuke. It's just not takuan. Depending on the size of the diakon, let it go for 1-2 days. Also, I was thinking. The main cultures in nukadoko are yeast and lactobacili. Since I am making it from scratch, without the 'seed' of someone else's nukadoko, I was wondering if I should inoculate my mix with a very small spot of yogurt or, better, miso. I also have dried yeast somewhere in my pantry. Any thoughts? This is why you mix your nukadoko with your (clean) hands when you're starting it. There are lactobacilli on your skin. Introducing dairy into your nukadoko would probably be very bad.
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Post by solveig on Sept 21, 2008 21:26:35 GMT -5
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Post by Noriko on Sept 21, 2008 21:53:52 GMT -5
Hmn, I think the local co-op near me sells Lactobacilus Acidophilus in bulk so I can buy just a bit - I *think*. They sell a lot of weird stuff. Or I can just put some miso in there and see what happens. I know there's probably happy little microbes on my hands but aren't most soaps vaguely antibacterial?
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Post by solveig on Sept 21, 2008 22:58:05 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! There may be Lactobacilus Acidophilus in miso, but you also get the rest of the miso along with it. Traditional soap is not particularly antibacterial. Its major function is as a wetting agent which causes the bacteria on your hands to be washed down the drain. The current fad for antibacterial soap is very bad from a public health standpoint. The reason is that it breeds "super germs" that are immune to the antibiotics they are putting in these products.
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