Nagamaki

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

Anyone here use one ?
or do you just use a Naginanta ?


looking for some technique advice, collaboration.

couple problems i have faced.
with a larger handle my opponent closes the gap and grabs my shaft thus forcing a different game on me.

any suggestions ?
escape ?
super cool moves ?

this guy is a real pain.

share.

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

Anyone here use one? or do you just use a Naginanta?

Mainly I just use a Naginata, depending on your kingdoms rules, nagamaki can get a bit rediculous to make... Also they do not have quite the versatility of a naginata in SCA combat, the benefits in a real nagamaki do not translate.

with a larger handle my opponent closes the gap and grabs my shaft thus forcing a different game on me. any suggestions ? escape ? super cool moves ?

I take it you are using a naginata now (thus more haft for him to grab)...

Decreasing your shaft length while increasing your blade length is not going to net you any real advantage... point is the man gets past your blade (or catches it) switching is not going to help that... Without knowing exactly what is transpiring it is hard to provide any ideas for you... A simple total rethink of how you are deploying the naginata is the first point.

1.Instead of going for an opening straight down headshot, try a body shot from the side

2. Feign the initial downward strike, choke up, turn it into a thrust, either to his chin/face, or to his the corne point of his shield and jam his shield into his chin, swordarm shoulder, this will stop his advance in its tracks, then roll off to his swordside and butspike him to the midsection or chin

3. be high but instead of throwing a blow, roll off to his swordside and delvier a butspike to his armpit

4. Do as you normally do, and when he comes in drop one hand, get him and you tied up with the shaft (use it to impede his swordarm, or just let him hold your naginata, and with yoru freehand pull your tanto and stab him in the eye...

5. If you are not that experianced and faliling around quite a bit (and this guy is esperianced and being a real jerk) put a tennisball on a string, and practice point control for thrusting, get real good but do not show it, continue fighting sloppy. Then in a very public situation, using your butspike, slip inside and cupshot him. Even a soft but deft touch oughta clear up the jerk problem, might even impress them... Note I am not advocating tryign to injure said man, be nice about it even if it means he pops ya in the head in the exchange, it will make him think though.

-Takeda

[mrcunningham]

What Akimasa-dono said. The only way to totally avoid someone grabbing your haft is to go the tachi route and not have enough haft to grab.

I think the first question though is: what is he giving up when he grabs your haft? SOMETHING on his weapon is off balance - take advantage. Grab his weapon and create a stalemate or throw him off balance. If you have to, let him have your weapon and force the restart. Etc.

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

ok to clarify a couple things.

3 foot shaft
3 foot blade plus thrusting tip

it qualifies as great sword.
as my next authorization is great sword.

no but spike as per rules


him.
two handed war hammer.
god it hurts


him. chokes up on hammer, gets in close, grabs shaft. tries to take my weapon.




my idea tonight.
using an aikido move that will force his face to the ground with the nagamaki shaft

will update.


p.s he is our prince

[Yagyu Jubei Takemori]

you could allways wait till he charges you and grabs your weapons then drive your helm into his facegrill and watch him jump backwards.

Or on a serious note. Have you tried to set for his charge and let him impale himself on your tip, or even take out his knees if he is charging in he cannot dodge with his knees and you can leg him.

Depending on how he holds his hammer when he comes at you, you should have room to hit him somewhere. Watch for him to choke up on the hammer and you know he will close and let him step into your shot its REALLY hard to dodge a shot that you are headed for.


**Note I fight 2 stick not 2H so none of this may work**


Another option that I am playing with is keeping a tanto in my belt for just this occasion and then when he closes grab it and stab him in the face.

[tengumoon]

I have a 5.5 foot nagimaki for tournament
I have a 7ft naginata / yari (double edged) with 2 foot blade for war

nagimaki technique is a strange mix of katana and naginata work – ad as has been mentioned, most of the benefits of nagimaki do not translate into the SCA game (or a lot of other Japanese weapon techniques unfortuneately)

The key to nagimaki and naginata (and other long weapons) is foot and body movement

My first comments:
If your opponent grabs your haft then he has lost a lot of control of his own weapon, meaning its harder for him to hit you.

You will have 2hands on your haft compared to his one – giving you an advantage.
You can simple twist the haft from his hands ad hit him or you can twist your whole body in such a way that negates his grip and strike him (some good examples of this come from aikido tenkan and irimi movements)
Turn to face the same direction as him as he closes and spin and hit him in back of head

Another option is to grab his weapon haft – but then you lose your advantage

How about not let him grab your haft at all in the first place?
Disengages are great (think of rapier technique or spear vs spear)

What is your stance like? Are you threatening this guy in his advance (body and legs) or is your weapon pointing to the sky? The difference in weapons means you are not controlling the distance between you an him, especially due to the difference in weapon length

We have butt / pommel spikes (thrusting tips) on our long weapons.

Since you say this guy is a pain – and your prince…
Here I know that the emphasis is on teaching and improving our fighters
Why isn’t this guy providing you with some ideas as to how to counteract his actions? Why isn’t someone else assisting you? The whole idea is if you improve then so to will they.

If we had video to review it would be so much easier to provide help

Some great other advice given above as well

two handed war hammer.
god it hurts

Don’t be where he can easily hit you, move to the side, choke up his weapon with a shoulder or your haft

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

Nagamaki
3 foot shaft
3 foot blade plus thrusting tip

it qualifies as great sword.
as my next authorization is great sword.
no but spike as per rules

Ummm you suck... we can;t do that in our kingdom (mumble mumble stupid 18 inch greatswrd handle limit)

Da Prinz
two handed war hammer chokes up on hammer, gets in close, grabs shaft. tries to take my weapon.

looks sorta like this, but with sca legal thrusty instead of the rubber spike?


Unless he is hitting you with the hammer end, I imagine he chokes up fast as he moves in with one smooth move and pops ya in the mug, if he is striking he is throwing with his arm along the shaft.

Easy fix, fade as he enters, make sure he misses the grab and plant him like a tentpeg in mud when he comes up short. Set up as initial feight and let him fail in the first exchange, he will be out fo his range and perfectly in yours.

-Takeda

[Yamanouchi Eidou]

Pretend you're half-swording a zweihander.

[Lash]

everyone here has great advice !!

The only thing I didnt see was that if your opponent is closing, tying you up and grabing your weapon .
im assuming either he feints to draw you out or counter attacks. probably by cross blocking your initial attack closes and grabs your weapon.

use your periferal vision to watch his feet he has to move them .
as stated above work on those thrusts but time them to the begining or mid step. interupt his roll.

you could also let him grab your weapon, using his grip as a pivot point, place your top hand on the back of your blade rotate it into his grill as forcefully as you can .then imediatly on the rebound turn the weapon around his hand as you straighten his arm by stepping back pulling him off balance and breaking his grip.

if the first part is incidental the follow up should be well worth it.

as stated above footwork is your shield and foundation. with out it your sunk.work the angles step out 45 degrees each side you gain alot of ground unnoticed. work on a hanging car tire stepping 45 and hitting 2,5,7,and eleven oclock strikes keep them fluid and use the rebound to swirl into the next strike.
good practice and good conditioning.

I speciallize in yari and naginata and am proficient with great sword .
I like for people to close with me and try and grab my weapon they get a cross check that will rattle their teeth.
with your weapon though a well placed shoulder can definatly change someones mind.

to everyone else its nice to read well thought out and executed techniques.
very refreshing from " ug me smash"

Lash

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

thought i would update.
fight practice was last night.

he was my last fight of the night.
saved just enough for him.

he was fresh i was already pooped. so he had an advantage already.
im a sucker for punishment.
this however turned out not be better than expected.

I used a lot more thrusting than before.
successfully landed a throat thrust, probably a little stiff but he did break my helmet three weeks ago. so he does deserve a little punishment. the throat was BEAUTIFUL !!

then i hit him in the body with a thrust and he was off balance. he went down like someone turned the power off. when he got back up he was so surprised. god that felt good.

we traded hits back and forth for a bit. he then choked up and i knew he was planning on coming in. Grabbed my shaft. I used some aikido and he went face first into the pavement. when he arose and looked at me. BOOM stick to the face. he didnt like that to well.

then he closed the gap again and i did this little disco dance trying to escape, turning to my left and spinning around, blocking with the sword kinda behind me. hard to explain. very pretty to watch and effective. did that 4 times and i got dizzy. he kept blocking the counter so i had to spin again. (he pushed me into a corner)

couple times i used a high guard and did a feign to his head and made contact with he body, really driving it home when i hit. he does have rhino hide syndrome after all.

all in all it went a lot better than before. the last hit he got was a big two handed power swing. right to my scapula. i bowed out and had to take my armor off. it hurt so bad i couldn't hold my sword back to the changing area.

what i learned.

Nagimaki is SUPER AWESOME SAUCE for tricking him into thrusts. I have a 6 foot weapon. and need to remember that ! DEADLY thrusts.

Nagimaki is not as fast as my Nodachi. but has a LOT more power when it hits home.

Nagimaki is really intimidating when in high guard. but slow to react.

I pronounce my intentions with my head. need to stop doing that.

Aikido is really effective against shaft handling. stay off my shaft. !!


lastly.
to give you an idea what his weapon is like.
4 foot and some.
hammer head it all hockey pucks taped together.
it looks like a sledge hammer.

IT HURTS !

[konrad]

These two videos from Duke Paul might be of help:

www.bellatrix.org/school/appendix_i/videos/07a-PW.htm

www.bellatrix.org/school/appendix_i/videos/08-PW.htm

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

NICE !!!

that is where i got my ideas for last night.
Someone needs to buy this guy a beer truck. He has some amazing advice !
I am bringing some very special beer to pennsic for him. If i see him

[Yamanouchi Eidou]

High Guard suggestion: A Defender of the White Scarf I know who also does Cut & Thrust likes to hold a high guard with a two handed sword. When I tried to come in at him lower he swept his blade down and sort of created a wall that moved my sword to the side. He also made an oblique step that changed his fighting line. That tended to be very effective. I realize this might be a lot more difficult to work with a longer handle and armored gauntlets, but it might be worth a try.

I dunno.

I stabs the peeples with my rapeeir.

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

Yamamoto-dono,

Reading your after-practic post made me cringe a little; and I live in Atlantia and have also fought in AnTir...

Maybe I am reading what you wrote wrongly, but I am a bit disturbed. And my intention is not to smack you down, but to call you out if I have not miss interpreted your recounting; for I would do the same had I witnessed such at a practice or event.

...he then choked up and i knew he was planning on coming in. Grabbed my shaft. I used some aikido and he went face first into the pavement. when he arose and looked at me. BOOM stick to the face. he didnt like that to well.

I am not sure what exactly you did to send him sprawling, but I can say that if you did anything other than retreat and turn, with his own momentum or grip on your polarm carrying him to the floor, that you have definantly done a naughty thing. We are not allowed to grapple, nor are we permitted purposeful body contact... this means no hip-tosses, nor any cast them to the side manuvers, where your body becomes a lever. Secondly while he was down, to take any action other than assisting him up if he needs it, is discourteous in the extreme. I would consider yourself very very lucky if his highness does not censure you or worse. I have seen cards pulled for lighter offenses.

...successfully landed a throat thrust, probably a little stiff but he did break my helmet three weeks ago. so he does deserve a little punishment...

I know this is a list and you are probably venting (I do it all the time) but if this goes through your mind in the list, it is not good. No action of this nature should be justification for jacking someone more severely. If you jacked him too hard unintentionally, that is ok, it happens. But justification of it is a bad thing.

he does have rhino hide syndrome after all.

Politely call him out on it in front fo the assembled group (espeically in front of knights) If no one has commented to you that you lack power in your shots and you are throwing light, making the comment "I'm sorry my lord, but it is mostly futile to engage in a contest of arms with you, since yor armor seems to be proof aganist my blows, lest they be what I was taught as excessive" If the assembleage knows you throw good blows routinely, then he will look the ass.

...to give you an idea what his weapon is like. 4 foot and some.
hammer head it all hockey pucks taped together. it looks like a sledge hammer.

E-ghads unless he has some padding on the ends of those pucks, that is an illegal weapon and a half. I'm sorry, I don;t know any marshal who does not consider a hocky puck ridgid material... especialy trying to compress it on the flat. Seriously, that is so far removed from ok, I would refuse to fight a weapon like that... I come from the land of kong maces and that scares me.

Now if this is an unoffical practice where the SCA ruleset is not applicable, please ignore my comments... If that is the case, the most effective is to thrust him in the instep as he charges forward and stand to the side, he will faceplant time after time after time.... then just stab downward through the back.

-Takeda

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

ok.

i didn't explain it fully i guess.
1) aikido move.
can be seen in example here.
www.bellatrix.org/school/appendix_i/videos/07a-PW.htm
www.bellatrix.org/school/appendix_i/videos/08-PW.htm
www.bellatrix.org/school/appendix_i/videos/07b-PW.htm

i did NO grappling. I did NO hip throw. just weapon and twist. He held on. and got smack.
and for the record, he did arise and dust him self off once.

2) honestly. i take no revenge in my helmet being broken. His card should have been pulled for that though. Hitting hard is one thing. Breaking gear is not cool. the thrust was not HARD but a nice hit. this is the prince, so any hits i get on him means i am improving and darn it i am awfully excited about that.

3) rhino hide. yes he should be called on it. but i am sure he will. it is not my place nor my position to do so. I am the ONLY samurai in my canton and already get enough flak form that. I dont need more. plus i am new. i am here to learn. and some of my blows could be light. who knows. i am still working toward and authorization in two handed.

4) HOCKEY PUCKS. the ones i an referring to are orange. spongey and closed cell foam. they have the 2 inch compression required and his weapon is just under the legal limit. still hurts like a gorilla swinging a refrigerator. It has been approved by SCA standards. Still doesnt make it fun to get hit by.


I do think you miss read it. and I perhaps left some things unsaid. Part of typing to fast in between 9 other tasks i am doing, including work.


hope that helps.
and i do appreciate you looking out for me.