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Post by Noriko on Mar 13, 2010 17:35:10 GMT -5
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Post by solveig on Mar 13, 2010 19:02:54 GMT -5
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Post by Noriko on Mar 13, 2010 19:38:35 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! That is an expensive game. Oh well, in regards to the year... As for the price, nothing is expensive when you're willing to play with paste! [1] ;D I've made one fan so far (though it's a bit on the wonky side). [1]Letsee, in this case, I'd need a shoebox, some wood... (; |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 13, 2010 20:45:34 GMT -5
Oh well, in regards to the year... Repeat after me, "Crap! Edo." (Which is not at all the same as "Edo crap.") Since you're interested in games, there's a book called "Asian Games, The Art of Contest" that was put out in tandem with a museum exhibition a couple of years ago. Amazon has a few copies used, but they're a bit steep. Interlibrary loan might be the best way to go. It states the following: "According to tradition, it [tosenkyo] was invented by a gambler in 1773, when his sleep was disturbed by a butterfly and he threw his fan at it to chase it away." An earlier game, known in Japan as toko, involves trying to pitch arrows into a tall vase. The Chinese were playing it as early as the pre-Han dynasties and Japan certainly absorbed the pastime, as there's a toko pot in the Shosoin repository from about the 8th century. The vase for this game tends to have a bulbous bottom, a tall neck and two horizontal loops or ears to either side. One gets more points for tossing the arrow into the vase itself, but can still garner a point if one gets the arrow into one of the ears. sites.asiasociety.org/arts/asiangames/power01.html |
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Post by Noriko on Mar 13, 2010 21:55:31 GMT -5
Since you're interested in games, there's a book called "Asian Games, The Art of Contest" that was put out in tandem with a museum exhibition a couple of years ago. Amazon has a few copies used, but they're a bit steep. Interlibrary loan might be the best way to go. Um, mind if I squee merrily here? Because according to WorldCat, there's a copy in the library of a school I'm attending[1] (; I don't have an ID there since I'm only there for one semester but I'll see what I can wiggle out of them... they *do* have a photocopier though! [1]Due to some scheduling snafus, I'm taking two classes at two different schools, one for transfer credit.... |
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Post by solveig on Mar 13, 2010 22:10:42 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! I think that it is a bit difficult to adduce the use of a vase found in some storeroom or archaeological dig. The description sounds similar to the vase shaped implement used to store hibashi (fire tongs) and other implements in daisu tea ceremonies. Just another possible use.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 13, 2010 22:43:34 GMT -5
The Shosoin toko pot is described as being part of a set that included the arrows needed to play the game. "The complete set comprises two gilded bronze vases and twenty three decorated arrows - made of wood and bamboo - and eighteen fragments. Twenty four arrows were normally used in the game (twelve each for two players, eight each for three players)." (Asian Games: The Art of Contest, p. 277) The book includes a photo of the Shosoin pot and accompanying arrows. There's an accurate sketch of the Shosoin pot (with its challengingly narrow ears) on this site about the Korean version of the game, as well as an early Chinese pot found with the arrows inside: www.medieval-baltic.us/kortuho.htmlOh, and I've misstated the game play - one gets a higher score for getting an arrow into the smaller "ears" than into the pot body itself. |
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 14, 2010 0:50:13 GMT -5
The game is usually called "pitch pot" in English sources. It seems to have originally been a game of skill, drawing on traditions of nobility as archers, but became more of a thing to do at parties by the less-than-martial elite in the Chinese bureaucracy. I believe that the details are described by Confucius, though game play also appears to have changed over time. The shape of the pot, for instance, changed (I don't think the "ears" were originally part of the game, for instance).
As to why we know it is a pitch pot and not some other pot? That's rather the same way we would know a chess pawn from a small pestle. The example in the Shosoin is definitely intended for the game.
-Ii
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Post by crimsongriffin28 on Mar 14, 2010 12:22:28 GMT -5
Weirdly, I caught a live broadcast of Tosenkyo on NHK the other day. Looked like a full on tournament. But all I could think of was how 5 Westerners playing would squabble endlessly over how the fan landed, and what configuration, to award points. Much rather play the arrow game - sounds like horseshoes.
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Post by solveig on Mar 14, 2010 16:18:50 GMT -5
Makiwara hime!
Greetings from Solveig! Thank you very much for posting the missing details about the find. I've seen and heard of enough stuff being misidentified at museums to appreciate the need for more information. Thank you again.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 15, 2010 11:19:57 GMT -5
I cannot recommend this book enough if one is interested in games. It traces a lot of the cross cultural origins of games that occur in multiple Asian locales, the photographs are plentiful, and the articles were compiled under the aegis of the Asia Society. (It's a shame I never got to see the exhibition itself.)
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Post by Noriko on Mar 15, 2010 22:40:17 GMT -5
I managed to take a look at the book at the library. Very pretty! I also noticed a mention of battledore and shuttlecock and that it might pre-date Edo. I wonder if I could rig up some sort of set out of basswood[1] and other arts and crafts supplies...
[1]If I can't get through it with a knife, I could always see if someone could do it for me at the woodshop at school. Ah, art school...
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 16, 2010 0:50:10 GMT -5
I managed to take a look at the book at the library. Very pretty! I also noticed a mention of battledore and shuttlecock and that it might pre-date Edo. I can prove it.  Note that both sexes are playing, not just girls. I also see no evidence of losing scores being marked on any of the players' faces with ink or charcoal, so hopefully, that development can be skipped. www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/search/images/max/C0022475.jpg is a detail from the "Genre Scenes of the Twelve Months," a 16th century folding screen in the Tokyo National Museum collection. Carving the hagoita is the easy bit. (I know I made a couple awhile back, I just don't know where they ended up after that last move. I should make a couple more for some of our summer outdoor events...) Here's a good detail shot of the "birdie", which is made from a seed pod and feathers. www.eco-friendly-japan.net/2009/01/hanetsuki.html |
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Post by Noriko on Mar 16, 2010 11:04:53 GMT -5
*nods* I looked at the picture and I thought, "Hey, that's one of Makiwara-hime's reference pictures!" What did you make the hagoita out of?
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 16, 2010 12:05:37 GMT -5
What did you make the hagoita out of? Basswood, about 1/4" thick, IIRC. |
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Note that both sexes are playing, not just girls. I also see no evidence of losing scores being marked on any of the players' faces with ink or charcoal, so hopefully, that development can be skipped.