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Post by Matsushima Matataro on Jun 3, 2011 10:04:17 GMT -5
I imagine that I am going to get a lot of flak for this, but I like sword and shield.
I take every opportunity I get to put on my japanese armor, don my kabuto and take up my 2 handed sword, but when the situation calls for a shield I simply swap my kabuto for a spangenhelm, put on a surcoat(completely hides my armor) and transform into a generic crusader.
Solveig-dono, I am in the Kingdom of Northshield and we also require sword and shield as first authorization
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Post by Mori Takeo on Jun 4, 2011 19:41:17 GMT -5
Greetings all,
I am both new to this board, and although i have been in a do for several years i am still new-ish to the japanese persona thing. Although i prefer to fight with Katana, Nakamaki, or with two weapons, my newly acquired knight, (who is of norse persona, but a good knight) wants me to look at fashioning a shield to look like a large Gunsen. Any thoughts? (or should i just duck and cover?)
Humbly with my first post, Takeo
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 4, 2011 19:47:22 GMT -5
Your nice Norse knight (wow, say that three times fast) wants you to Create An Anachronism. ;-D
I'm not a fighter, but I know how one holds a shield and how one holds a gunsen and it's not the same. Now, if you wanted to use it as a rigid parrying object, that would make more sense.
I'm also pretty sure this idea has been floated before but no one ever seems to report back as to whether they could make it workable.
Besides, there's always the "I got it off a dead namban," gambit for using an honest to goodness Western shield....
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Post by solveig on Jun 5, 2011 0:11:12 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! Your knight is almost certainly well intentioned, but I think that you should make a small rectangular center-grip buckler which is longer in the vertical dimension than the horizontal. This corresponds to a very rare but apparently documentable use of a hand shield by Japanese of a period which might interest you.
As an alternative, use whatever sort of shield that your knight is most familiar with and just use it to authorize with and abandon it as much as possible when you gain proficiency in other weapon forms.
Regardless. Wikipedia correctly notes that the gunsen was a signaling device. I don't recall any examples of it being used as a parry device.
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Post by Mori Takeo on Jun 5, 2011 7:07:58 GMT -5
Solvieg-dono, thank you for the suggestion i will look into the buckler. (are there any online sources for this?)
I AM authorized in all styles for this kingdom (except spear, which is next). We were just looking for ideas, as sword and board is my weakest style, (duh) and it is the most popular style for tourneys at the moment. I do like the "took it off a dead nanban" idea which i will use for now with my other shield. Maybe a Mongolian dish is the shield?
Thanks again for the suggestions...please keep em coming. Takeo "a Squire's gotta do what a Squire's gotta do"
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Jun 5, 2011 13:00:54 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Your knight is almost certainly well intentioned, but I think that you should make a small rectangular center-grip buckler which is longer in the vertical dimension than the horizontal. This corresponds to a very rare but apparently documentable use of a hand shield by Japanese of a period which might interest you. I had planned to make such a shield, then fight left-handed with it (I'm naturally right-handed) in order to improve my left-hand power and skill for two-sword. As for a discussion of weapon styles, my main style is two-sword. I don't really like shields, especially the huge heater I used when I first started fighting. I only plan on using one to improve my two-sword style. I'm definitely liking hand-and-a-half more and more, though. I find when I fight with my katana I enjoy myself more than any other weapon style, and Marc de Arundel's winning of West Crown proves it can be a viable style against shield using opponents. I don't like greatsword as much as hand-and-a-half (and there IS a difference), but I do want to make a nagamaki and see how that works for me. As an aside, the picture Mori-dono posted in the Videos and Pictures of members fighting thread looks good. -Hiro
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 5, 2011 14:09:10 GMT -5
I'm definitely liking hand-and-a-half more and more, though. I find when I fight with my katana I enjoy myself more than any other weapon style, and Marc de Arundel's winning of West Crown proves it can be a viable style against shield using opponents. It was my pleasure last weekend to inform His Majesty and His Highness Takeshi-no-miya (Prince of Cynagua) that they've achieved rock-star inspiration status on this forum. ;D
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Post by solveig on Jun 5, 2011 18:04:52 GMT -5
Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Supposably, hand shields existed ca 1200 CE. From "The Encyclopedia of Japanese Arms and Equipment" ISBN: 4-7601-2533-7 page 188 The use of a hand shield is described in 『源平盛衰記』(Genpei Seisuiki)
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Post by Ishikawa Yoshimasa on Feb 7, 2012 16:32:44 GMT -5
long ago when I would still armor up at practices I HATED the shield. I still do. Meridies requires sword and board authorization, but once so authorized any weapon style is fair game. I had learned to fight with and against spear before I could hold my shield steady... I have never authorized because by the time I could afford our armor ownership requirement, I did not have the time to play like I wanted, but at one time I was actually training people in spear tactics for and against. I have sworn that my medium metal round shield will get me through authorization some day, and the day it does, I am going to find some newbie fighter and ambush them giving them the shield and being gone before they have a chance to realize what happened.
sword and board is JUST a weapon style... it does not show that you can be proficient in other styles it is a training mandate because "that is what I had to do years ago so it is what they should do now" I also have no great interest in tournament fighting... I am strictly interested in war fighting.
my dislike of shields established, I would also say that I literally dream of taking a mixed unit of sheildmen, polearms, and crossbowmen/archers out with door shields and training together till we can pull off roman style shield work. I would happily scrounge the lumber and metal to equip the unit even if it ment eating nothing but ramen and selling plasma for a couple years to get the materials<G>
as for more to the point of the original post. if you wish to fight shield, fight shield... make no attempt to claim it to be anything more than adapting to the way the sport of heavy combat is played as the sport is not played in a manner reflecting real combat, nor for that matter even the way tournaments where fought. (I will refrain from getting started on that rant)
Solveig-sensei, I recall seeing that shield style in an english language book a number of years ago, but as it was a shield and not the pavis I was looking for, I did not pay much attention to it... I do believe I recall it being described as being li'l more than an arrow catcher though... intended to be used to block/catch arrows, then be discarded before entering melee... is this accurate?
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