Suoh Hitatare

[AJBryant]

Jun 15, 2011 6:11:21 GMT -5 @ishiyama said:

What? (I realize this is a bit OT for this board, but...) I was always taught that black tie formal meant you wore a tailcoat, and that a tuxedo is semi-formal. The cuts of these two items are not identical.

Properly speaking, you are correct. The "tux" is a semiformal garment.

"Briefly, men wear a dinner jacket (US English: tuxedo coat); trousers, uncuffed, with one stripe on leg seams; shirt (stiff wing or soft folded collar) with either a placketed, pleated, piqué, or ruffled front; a black bow tie; a black evening waistcoat or a cummerbund; black, patent leather or calf Oxfords or court shoes; cuff links and shirt studs; accessories. However, this is not strictly formal. It would correctly be classified as semi-formal."

The tuxedo coat was a semi-formal development of the tailcoat. With WHITE TIE, however, the tux coat is totally unacceptable.

[bovil]

Jun 15, 2011 6:11:21 GMT -5 @ishiyama said:

What? (I realize this is a bit OT for this board, but...) I was always taught that black tie formal meant you wore a tailcoat, and that a tuxedo is semi-formal. The cuts of these two items are not identical.

Well, it isn't really OT for this board, because we often talk about the evolution of formal dress to ritual dress, semi formal dress to formal dress and casual dress to semi-formal dress in Japanese clothing.

"White tie" and "Black tie" are levels of formality. Before WWII, white tie was the standard for formal evening dress, and black tie was the standard for semi-formal.

White tie is a tailcoat-based uniform (and it is a uniform, deviation is not accepted), black tie is a tuxedo jacket (or "dinner jacket") based uniform (if an invitation isn't "black tie optional" you really shouldn't deviate from the standard).

These days, white tie is reserved for only the most formal occasions. Black tie has retreated to special occasions, and while it may be officially semi-formal it really hasn't been in popular culture since the 60's. Formal isn't what it used to be. Colored tuxedos and notched lapels have pushed true black tie into the realm of "formal."

[Saionji Shonagon]

(Tries to envision Bovil-dono in white tie but the utilikilt keeps getting in the way....)

[bovil]

Jun 15, 2011 18:51:36 GMT -5 Saionji Shonagon said:

(Tries to envision Bovil-dono in white tie but the utilikilt keeps getting in the way....)

When I'm satisfied with the results of my exercise program, I'm probably investing in at least a nice black tie ensemble. I occasionally get invites to black tie events (usually black tie optional, so I go with alternative styles).

I've never been invited to a white tie event, so white tie falls into the "I would love to have it, but I would never use it" category.

[Deleted]

Sewed on the kotsuyu and front ties today, so I guess this project is complete.




I worked really hard to get the "ups and downs" right on the hitatare. This worked out OK for the top, but lining up the pattern on the hakama produced those weird offset lines of dragonflies after pleating. It was way too late to do anything about it at that point, though.

A few more pictures at www.ee0r.com/proj/suoh.html.

both pieces are lined and everything! This should make it especially sweltering when I wear it during opening ceremonies at Pennsic.

[Saionji Shonagon]

Nice. Looking forward to seeing some of you in it.

[Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa]

That fabric is gorgeous.

How did you do the lining of the hitatare? I never figured out how to do the traditional sew-most-of-it-then-flip-it-the-other-way-out-and-finish-it trick with a sleeved garment other than doing it entirely by hand.

[AJBryant]

Doooooooooooood. Seriously sweet schmata there.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2011 22:58:02 GMT -5 Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa said:

That fabric is gorgeous.

Check back in the "decor fabrics" section of Jo-Ann; they have a lot of fancy looking stuff. It was all 50% off this past weekend. (40% off last month, grn.)

One nice thing about fabric with a largish, regular pattern like this is that it makes cutting decisions really easy. Just find the distance between dragonflies and it's like cutting graph paper.

How did you do the lining of the hitatare? I never figured out how to do the traditional sew-most-of-it-then-flip-it-the-other-way-out-and-finish-it trick with a sleeved garment other than doing it entirely by hand.

The trick is that the neck band goes on last. I did a lot of head scratching before each step, and moving all the fabric around on the sewing table was a huge pain, but whatever seam of the garment you need to access, you really can pull it out through the open neckband for sewing. With the hakama, the same trick applies to the open waistband.

John Marshall's book has some good tips for lined garments. While they're largely incomprehensible, they did give me the right frame of mind and some good diagrams. First, assemble the shell of the hitatare except for the neck band. Next, sew a sleeve lining together, turn it rightside-in, slide it onto a rightside-out sleeve (rightsides together), and sew around the wrist end opening. Turn it inside, then do the other sleeve. Then, assemble the body lining, turn it rightside-in, slide it onto the rightside-out body (rightsides together), and sew the bottom hem. Turn the lining inside. Now, one by one figure out how the sleeve-to-body seams have to go, reach in through the open neckband, pinch the proposed seam tight in your fingers and pull it out through the neckband. Pin it, double check it, and sew. Follow this method for every other seam until the only thing left is the neckband. Sew on the neckband and you're done.

[Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa]

That was useful. Thank you.

[Deleted]

I decided to use the cognac-brown silk I got in Portland to make another suoh. This is just the hitatare-type upper body portion. It's silk inside and out, with suede kotsuyu and munahimo.

I'll probably wear it with the similarly-lined blue silk hakama I made back in January. The non-kamishimo styling of that will probably make it a ton less formal, but I'm OK with that; this is probably going to be "party wear" for 12th Night.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Nice!
Any chance of close-ups of the himo?

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2015 6:32:19 GMT -5 Mega Zenjirou Yoshi said:

Any chance of close-ups of the himo?

Which, the munahimo or the kotsuyu?

The munahimo (18 inches of half inch wide suede lace), as you can see in the picture, are doubled over at the end and stitched to the lapels through pre-punched holes. The kotsuyu (little knots, 6 inches of half inch wide suede lace) are punched near the center, sewn on (you can see the inside stitch for the center-back one in the munahimo picture), then tied in an overhand knot. Sew on horizontally for a vertical knot.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Sept 28, 2015 15:05:52 GMT -5 @ishiyama said:

Which, the munahimo or the kotsuyu?

Yes.



And thanks!!