Female Buke/Onna buge?

[nana]

I'm sorry if I'm bringing up a subject that we've discussed previously. (And if it's in the wrong area of the boards.) I've been trying to find any previous threads that talk about female warriors in the history of Japan. I was just curious because I would like to find more information and I always get good information and good pointers on where to start looking when I ask you wonderful people. Thank you!

[Lady Kimiko]

There are a few - a number do crop up throughout Japanese history. I have read of a few over the years, but never took note - all the same the info on them lie somewhere in my many books.

Here is something to hold you over and provide you with some possible leads: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna_bugeisha & www.pbs.org/empires/japan/tokaido_6.html

[Yagyu Jubei Takemori]

The only one I have heard of by name is Tomoe Gozen (I'm pretty sure I murdered that name, have to check when I get home). She was a warrior in the Genpei wars. Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe_Gozen

My reading has let me to understand that it was common for women during the Sengoku to have martial training, because when the hubby was off at was, she was charged with protecting the home from bandits and thieves, so women knowing martial skills was common.

[Lady Kimiko]

I just stumbled onto: www.samurai-archives.com/women.html
Im trying to pillage the internet for resources instead of pining away at all my books for days. Then again, rereading most of the books couldnt hurt...

[Suzuki Ken'ichi]

Isn't there an Osprey book about Samurai Women? I imagine it's mostly about the wives/daughters of Samurai, but I can't imagine something with that title wouldn't also talk about the women who were Samurai in their own right, particularly given the cover illustration I seem to recall from the book.

ETA: Yup, and here it is.

[kazuyama]

I haven't read it myself, but it sounded like it didn't give much proof behind its statements. From what I've read, I think the idea of women in armor on the battlefield really didn't happen, but defending a castle from attackers while the men were away would be very possible. Japanese history is pretty sexist, not my idea, especially since I have three warrior class women in my family. That's probably the biggest reason right there why I do all the sewing and cooking at events!

[Yagyu Jubei Takemori]

If I can remember when I get home I ll get the reference for the home defense claim. Though I agree that given the views of women at the time, and the lack of documentation that women in the military (beyond morale boosters) were few and far between. I have only heard of the one that was a warrior.

[solveig]

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig!

Oct 6, 2011 14:41:08 GMT -5 kazuyama said:

Japanese history is pretty sexist

As I recall, sexism was a Chinese import which took several centuries to really take hold.

[kazuyama]

Good point actually. One of the factors my family and I took into consideration for playing the Kamakura era is because it is a bit more forgiving when it comes to the roll of women, considering its a family of three gals and me. Still, when it came to the battle field, war was a man's game for the most part. In all honesty, I would like to see more women on the battlefield of feudal Japan, but I just haven't seen many references to it. When we first sat down and figured out what type of personas we were all going to play, the figure of Tamoe Gozen was a huge influence, and I would love to see more figures like her, but I think she was an extreme exception.
That said, there are always lots of sources that show the woman of the warrior class with her naginata ready to stand her ground. The woman of Feudal Japan was far from a timid woman who stayed at home or she wouldn't have been relied on so seriously.
Now, if there were more examples than Tamoe Gozen, please show me, I'm seriously looking for some. I'd love to have documentation showing my wife can be historically correct while speaking softly and carrying a big Tachi!

[Suzuki Ken'ichi]

Well, Kazuyama-dono, I don't know your level of Japanese language fluency, but Stephen Turnbull, the guy who wrote that Osprey book, is considered something of an expert. In the text advertising the book, it says that there are sources not previously translated into English. I suspect I'd be willing to look at it, rather than just dismissing it out of hand, to see if there are any interesting source materials, and what it actually has to say.

But that's just me.

[Please Delete]

Turnbull is considered an "expert" by some, but not all (his doctorate is in religious studies, I believe, not Japanese military history). He is quite a prolific author, and good for beginning stuff, though he has gotten much better over time.

Even in his book I understand that most of the reliable accounts talk about women of the samurai class who had to defend the home/castle, vice women who went riding out into battle; many people believe Tomoe Gozen to be entirely fictional, or at least the accounts of her riding into battle (apparently that is not part of the earlier stories of Kiso Yoshinaka).

Not that this should discourage you--there are no gender restrictions in the SCA, and you can portray a warrior just as easily as anyone else. Realize, however, that the depictions in art of women fighting (usually of aforementioned Tomoe) usually have them in the same type of clothing and armor as any of the men; their make-up may be different.


-Ii

[kazuyama]

I'm pretty up on Turnbull, and agree with Ii dono completely. I also researched this book when it first came out and read many reviews by people who are much deeper into Japanese history than I am. I'm definately not an expert, but people much deeper into the history of feudal Japan seem to dislike this book for a few reasons. The review right under the add on Amazon itself said a few things of that nature. It just doesn't sound like a book I want to read.
I've also seen references to people dismissing Tomoe Gozen as fictional. I really don't want to personally, I like the idea of her legend and would like to think that if there was only one exception, at least she was awesome. I'm a romantic, sue me, lol.

[nana]

Thank you for all the great information!

[Lady Kimiko]

Here is a new photo to curl your toes with delight. This photo was just recently taken at a historical reenactment festival that takes place yearly in Japan known as Jidai Matsuri. This is a photo of a geisha is dressed up as Shizuka Gozen, a 12th century shirabyoshi (court dancer) and the mistress of the famous general Yoshitsune.

www.flickr.com/photos/kamomebird/6275149693/in/photostream/ - stunning

[nana]

I love it! The colors are gorgeous!