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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Nov 7, 2011 18:14:32 GMT -5
Just started brewing another batch of sake.
Anyone else here do it ?
this is my 7th batch.
I use the Bob Taylor method.
I have been documenting everything. So if anyone was interested I could be of some assistance.
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Post by Uryuu Ujishige on Nov 8, 2011 17:18:13 GMT -5
I am also trying to get started on sake brewing, and I am also using the Bob Taylor method. My problems have been in koji production. I am trying to grow my own tane-koji from kome-koji. I have had a limiited amount of success so far.
My main problems have been in temperature control (no automatic control device), and a less than desirable incubation system (too small of a cooler, and not the best of seals). Both of which will be corrected in the near future. Then I hope for better results.
I have been been successful in producing tane-koji, but it only seems to want to produce kome-koji about 50% of the time. I have enough kome-koji to produce a batch, but I would have to use all of my kome-koji to do so, and I want to make sure I have enough to continue producing koji for the future. It will probably be after the first of the year before I can get started again.
Kevin
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Nov 8, 2011 22:22:29 GMT -5
Ok. Couple things quick.
Are you using Koji Spores ?
I got mine from Vision Brewing I think. White pachage. about 25 bucks for a pack. Reliable source. Easy paypal or credit card. If you need help here I can hunt down the address. I have a web and a physical.
I am assuming you do not have a Japanese grocery store ? I got my koji from one. Walked in. said KOJI. some old dude came out all excited, talked to me for hours. If not. Go with spores and grow your own.
Next. What kind of rice? I found Kokoho sushi rice works good for Koji.
Steamer ? This is super VITAL ! Do not use a rice cooker.
If you are using steamer ignore.
Try a 42 gallon cooler. Seems to work the best. Use hot water BAGs. Like the kind you use for cleaning our your colon. The bladder kind. Make sure you put a glass of water in the container as well. It need to be humid. One glass should do. keep checking it.
I am in the process of building a komi koji cabinet dedicated to the production of koji.
I am currently brewing three gallons. I hope to bring this to 6 gallons on the next batch, then 12.
Eventually I want to go pro.
I am learning from a sake master. He brew 300 LITERS !!! at once.
tastes AMAZING.
let's keep this thread going with sharing, success and failures.
The only way we can learn
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Post by Uryuu Ujishige on Nov 15, 2011 18:34:59 GMT -5
Are you using Koji Spores ? No. I didn't purchase koji spores. I grew my original stock of tane-koji from kome-koji that I purchased online, and more kome-koji from that. It worked fine up to a point. Bob Taylor and others were advising me the entire time through the Norther Brewers Forum, the Sake Section.. I believe the problem is in the incubation chamber, and the spotty temperature control. The back story as to why is a little complicated, so I won't go into it. I am assuming you do not have a Japanese grocery store ? We have oriental stores here that carry Japanese items, but not koji. Well, not that I have found so far. still a few more to check out. Next. What kind of rice? I found Kokoho sushi rice works good for Koji. Can't remember the name off the top of my head. I'm at work. The brand sounds familiar, but it is not sushi rice. It is a short grain rice. Bought two 15# bags. It has worked ok so far, I think. Still learning what is right and what isn't. Steamer ? This is super VITAL ! Do not use a rice cooker. If you are using steamer ignore. Made a streamer from a large stock pot. I use a large colander with a cheesecloth liner to hold the rice, and put the stockpot top over the whole thing. I usually do no more than 1 cup batches at a time. Try a 42 gallon cooler. Seems to work the best. Use hot water BAGs. Like the kind you use for cleaning our your colon. The bladder kind. Make sure you put a glass of water in the container as well. It need to be humid. One glass should do. keep checking it. The cooler I have been using is a "Playmate", which is smaller than the one Bob recommends, and doesn't have the best of seals. That is why I am going to get a new cooler specifically tasked for koji, and I am going to get one of the temperature control devices Bob recommends. I am using the heating pad option at the moment, but the water bottle option sounds good too. And, yes, I keep a bowl of water in the bottom for humidity. I am in the process of building a komi koji cabinet dedicated to the production of koji. I am currently brewing three gallons. I hope to bring this to 6 gallons on the next batch, then 12. Eventually I want to go pro. I am learning from a sake master. He brew 300 LITERS !!! at once. tastes AMAZING. You know, I kind of have something of the same ideas myself. I am going to have to be content with a cooler for koji for the foreseeable future though. I would also like to go pro if I can get to where I am producing a good enough product. I, and some friends, already have plans to open a meadery in this area. Sake wouldn't be a bad addition to that as a locally produced product. I don't have the luxury of a in person mentor. I have checked though the main local brew shop, and as far as I can tell, I am the only one in this area trying to brew sake. That is, with the possible exception of a couple of SCA folks that I turned on to trying it, but they haven't started yet. let's keep this thread going with sharing, success and failures. The only way we can learn Glad to. I am all about that Kevin |
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Nov 16, 2011 12:47:43 GMT -5
I wasnt trying to sound like a snob or anything. so dont take that the wrong way by any means. i just get super excited about sharing interests. For the koji fermentor. I suggest using the heat pad on the bottom of warm water bottles. that might work too. and keep changing the bottles. using the heat pad as a warming to stay warm source. I am building a new cabinet for mine. Mine will be fuly insulated with non-molding foam. think pink foam wrapped in silver tape. the outside will be 3/4 plywood treated. the inside will hold three full size baking pans. the shelves wil be slates so air flow can go through. It will have a fan to circulate the air. It will have a place for water jar to keep it humid. it will be on casters so i can move it to warmer parts of the house when i am using it. like in front of the fire. then back to the kitchen when not in use. I am making it big enough that it wil double as a prep area and a table. something like this www.jackwagman.com/rwx/_DSC5329_8x10_tn.jpgThe koji spores you can get from Vision brewing. they were cheap. Get more than you think. Nothing wrong with using extra spores. Have you though about polishing your rice ? The cheap and easy method. take a cardboard shoe box. Line the outside with a few layers of packing tape and duct tape to strengthen it. Put your desired rice inside. tape the lid on REALLY good. Put it in the dryer and stuff pillows around it so it kinda sits in the center of the dryer. Put it on tuble dry with no heat for 1 hour. Drink sake and wait. Done. Polishing and washing are the two biggest prep steps that can help any recipie with rice along. My mentor is building a rice polisher. I would love to but do not have the space. At our grocery store ask any of the older people if they have Koji or miso koji. Sometimes the younger ones don't really know. Last time i asked the older owner took me in back with excited eyes to talk to me a bit about sake. Also ask resteraunts if they have any. You might get lucky. Sometimes sushi places can get it from their food distributors and will sell it to you. Be sure to buy the owners / chefs sake  My batch now is almost reayd for the Hakazoe stage. Big long day ahead of me. |
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Post by Rokurou on Nov 16, 2011 16:53:45 GMT -5
Konnichi-wa Sake tomodachi,
I am also using his method to great results, except I buy my koji instead. Only reason I buy versus make koji is, I've had very mixed results and when it goes bad, it goes really bad. After 5 attempts, I decided to just buy it from now on.
I've also been brewing sake for about three years now, and his method seems to be the best out of all the ones I've tried.
Rokurou
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Nov 17, 2011 9:26:47 GMT -5
The biggest hurdle for me using store made koji was finding a store that would sell it to me. I got lucky at my last one. It is made there in the store by the wife and the husband.
If you can find it. buy it.
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Post by Rokurou on Nov 17, 2011 14:06:00 GMT -5
I get mine from a store out in California. Although, I have found it sold online at two different stores.
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Post by Uryuu Ujishige on Nov 19, 2011 18:47:04 GMT -5
I was wrong about the rice I am using. It is Nishiki medium grain rice. I bought it at the largest oriental store in the area where I buy quite a bit of my oriental cooking supplies. The "polishing in the dryer" idea sounds intriguing. I may try that.
I understand the ease of buying koji, and I am sorely tempted to do so. However, I am also very heavily into the challenge of learning how to grow the koji so I don't have to buy it, and will be able to produce sake from my own stock.
I had to suspend operations briefly due to real life, but I am going to be getting back on track here in the next couple of weeks, along with starting another batch of mead.
Kevin
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Post by solveig on Nov 19, 2011 19:27:11 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! If I recall correctly, historically koji grows on mochi. So, I suppose that you might want to duplicate that process.
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Post by Uryuu Ujishige on Nov 20, 2011 17:18:10 GMT -5
Noble Sloveig-dono!
That may be, but growing it on steamed rice seems to work quite well for home brewing purposes. On the Northern Brewer forum I have seen accounts of koji being successfully grown on popcorn. However, the revue of the resulting sake was five words. "Just don't! Please, just don't!" Koji can be effectively grown on any heavily starched based item. Whether you want to make sake from it is another matter entirely.
Kevin
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Nov 22, 2011 9:48:36 GMT -5
I just aded Koji to my batch last night.
Tonight is steaming rice and then adding it to the mix. Then I have to stir once every two hours for twelve hours. OH JOY.
So far it smells fantastic and looks great. I hope this turns out well. A lot of work is going into this batch. As a lot of money for new equipment.
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Post by Yamamoto Morikazu on Dec 19, 2011 13:22:13 GMT -5
UPDATE.
Sake is out of the fermentation now and into the clean tank. For another two weeks it will settle and finish fermenting. During the transfer I pressed all the kasu out and gave it a filter through cheese cloth. It smeeled fantastic and you could definately tell it had alcohol in it.
Once it got in the tank I put it back into the celler which was reading at 46 degrees F. It smells amazing.
two more weeks until the filter process and bottling.
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Post by Hayashi Yuki on Sept 7, 2012 5:50:07 GMT -5
I am very interested in learning how to brew sake. I think it would be a great thing to learn. I'd love to counter balance all of the mead and beer brewers here in Trimaris.
Can we start posting links to the online stores we go to for koji?
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Post by Rokurou on Sept 7, 2012 10:21:42 GMT -5
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