kendo VS kenjutsu

[Shinomori Haku]

in my kingdom there is a man who is a 2nd dan in kendo who thinks kendo is the only right way to hold a sword and anything else is wrong the problem is hes the respected japanese example to my kindoms SCA fenceing. ive been studying Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū as my kenjtsu for 14 years and hold a 3rd dan ranking and just luring niten ichi ryu, he ripped the rapire katana out of my hands told me who taught me that was a moron and told me the ''correct way" to hold a katana ive taken it up with my superiors in the sca and they all think hes kinda an ass. but he still treats me like an amateur every time we meet. how would u suggest the best way to taking care of this issue? any time im there he wont spar, hes ''babying his knee for kendo but he will spar when my clan is not there and hes about 70 years old'' and will not lison to a word i say but this disrespect cant be tolerated for ever. also he as an attempt to hurt my group further he made sure to make my lords fencing gear magically became ilegal even thu he was using it for years.

Attachments:

[Yawata Saburou Tadamori]

There will always be assholes. In any group, in any barony, in any shire. Unfortunately you got a pretty bad one.

First of all, I would say avoid him. If that doesn't work, then show him that your style is worthy. But remember that ALL ways of fighting have things to teach you, take all opinions with a grain of salt, try them out, and then decide whether you like them or not.

[Please Delete]

I'm with Yawata-dono. The person may think that he is trying to help; and also realize that he may have something to teach. I'm 3-dan in Nakamura Ryu Battodo (among other things), but I know that when I pick up an SCA sword, the restrictions, shape, etc. are something different. In the same way that real kenjutsu won't work with shinai, there are certain things that work better in the SCA because of the rules, armor, and weapon types.

That said, I think you should explain, as humbly as possible, what you know and what you've studied, and why you want to do it your way. If he won't accept that, then maybe explain that you need to learn this yourself, and experiment.

The one caution I would give: There are some things that are illegal/unsafe to do in the SCA; there are also things that can be done safely but appear to be unsafe (and may be, depending on your control). If he is telling you something is illegal/unsafe, be ready to accept that. Every new art I learn, I try to take the mindset of a beginner, and that is the attitude I recommend to anyone starting SCA combat as well.


-Ii

[Lash]

my first reaction haku-dono would be to tell him to put his money where his mouth is. but i am learning slowly how to be more....diplomatic in my dealings with disagreeable people. i am a stick jock born and bread ass kickin stick swinging shield wall smashing metal head.
but over the years i have learned thet poisoned honey works better than vinegar lol.
if it was me i would remind this gentleman about personal space and respect.
if that didnt work i would invite him to tea ( or beer booze etc)
see if he will have a calm discussion with you because you would like to learn more about his position and art form .
be very polite and sincere as you dont want to be dealing with this crap all the time.
find out what rank if any he holds. if he is chilvalry then remind him of his duties and that he must agree to disagree.
if he is still unresponsive than openly, respectfully challenge him at the next practice. be as respectfull as you can and use stern ceremony in your challenge to a duel.
If he refuses than thank him very much and politely ask him not to have opinions or voice his opinions about you or your people if he is not willing to help correct definciencies that he sees.
if nothing changes then go to the earl marshal and talk to him or her about your grievances . if they dont do anything then work your way up the food chain. dont take " he's an ass avoid him crap" these peope are in place to help everyone with their dream so make them step in.
if it still goes on then at the next event you both attend set up a grand show, with the heralds permission, of challenging him openly in court with respect and solemnity.
If he refuses then ask humbly for the help of the crown to settle the issue between this person and your clan. be very specific and have a written account of everything with witnesses.
and of course hope that you can back up your words with action and win lol!!

i know this is a big pain in the butt . unfortunately there are right and wrong ways to do things for years i did it wrong being an ass getting in peoples faces and causing drama and continuing it.
there is a big movement now in the sca to get rid of this stuff so it starts with one person saying im an adult and big enough to talk things out and take care of issues over a tea cup.
if it doesnt work out that way then you can brain them with the tea pot!
so hang in there and be the better person thru superior technique lol

[Saionji Shonagon]

Feb 20, 2012 13:48:08 GMT -5 Lash said:

if it doesnt work out that way then you can brain them with the tea pot!

(Hides tea pot.) Rasshu-dono, that's tetsubo, not tetsubin.

[Lash]

hahhaahha !! sorry most humble appologies.

Haku-dono i just looked at your bio you are 22 year old and hold a 3rd dan ranking in Tenshin Shôden Katori Shintô-ryû ?
that is an incredible noteworthy feat. in saying that i can see where this "older" gentleman would think you were some peasant punk with a sword. most people wouldnt think someone your age would be that skilled to their ultimate defeat i think lol.
you are also the student of Mitsuhide a very well respected fighter by my clan and a great person . I think you should first consult with him before you do anything further as you may not know if he is already plotting something lol.
all students are very protective of their sensei's but sensei's are adults too! ;D

[Shinomori Haku]

lol i get that alot. i started my training at 8 years old and would train every single day privately with my instructor to get out of my abusive house hold so i had alot of time to train and dedicate to my marshal arts. to me my 3rd dan ranking just reminds me how little i know about marshal arts. and i was fairly recently given a 3rd dan ranking anyway.

[Shinomori Haku]

Feb 20, 2012 7:49:54 GMT -5 Please Delete said:

I'm with Yawata-dono. The person may think that he is trying to help; and also realize that he may have something to teach. I'm 3-dan in Nakamura Ryu Battodo (among other things), but I know that when I pick up an SCA sword, the restrictions, shape, etc. are something different. In the same way that real kenjutsu won't work with shinai, there are certain things that work better in the SCA because of the rules, armor, and weapon types.

That said, I think you should explain, as humbly as possible, what you know and what you've studied, and why you want to do it your way. If he won't accept that, then maybe explain that you need to learn this yourself, and experiment.

The one caution I would give: There are some things that are illegal/unsafe to do in the SCA; there are also things that can be done safely but appear to be unsafe (and may be, depending on your control). If he is telling you something is illegal/unsafe, be ready to accept that. Every new art I learn, I try to take the mindset of a beginner, and that is the attitude I recommend to anyone starting SCA combat as well.


-Ii

hmm im quite found of this comment. thats what i did accoly. when i was luring some rapier arts i didnt care if they told me i was holding it wrong or constant adjusting. but the one day i bring my rapier katana he out of no ware wile i was training with the white scarf interups our lessen and tells me to hold it like a shinnai and every other way is wrong. the problem is hes set out to distory any marshal arts reputation i have because he like being the ''go to guy''. thats why he wont spar me.

[Miyamoto Takezo]

Good words everyone! I agree with all the statements said here.

Ah, Lash-dono, I believe there was a misunderstanding, I am Haku-dono's daimyo, and not Mitsuhide-dono. Though, Mitsuhide-dono lives in the next barony to our East and is a good friend of mine.

Haku-dono, we've spoken about this topic before. Don't forget that SCA martial arts are unique and therefore, learning them is like starting over. Some things you have already learned will work, others will not, continue to variate, learn and adapt! Don't worry about what this gentleman has said about our clan, or I. Anyone with a voice can talk fierce words, it takes practice and dedication to swing a fierce sword. I will take care of things said about my name and our clan. As for what he has said to you, please consider these wise words:

"Master the divine techniques of The Art of Peace and no enemy will dare to challenge you." -Ueshiba Moriehei

[Tatsuo Okami]

I would be very curious as to HOW He could "make my lords fencing gear magically became ilegal even thu he was using it for years."

IS he the groups Rapier marshall? Is he Officially part of the Marshallate At all?
Are you sure it wasnt just a co-incidental updating of standards?
Because if NOT... that is how I would defend my rightness in this matter. Bring up: Why did the standards get changed for Just one set of Equipment?

A similar problem happened decades ago in Caid.. A recent appointee to their Combat Archery Marshallate bought 2 combat crossbows from my Sword Brother (in Atenveldt). After examining everything she would change to make them easier for her to fabricate, she made everyone of the items, that she changed for her "design", NO-GO's for Caid Specifications. We found witnesses later who told us this. When she made HER design of CA bolt's for sale the only legal ammo, many untoward aspects of her misusing the office came to light. We found it "Hinky" that she had bought Xbows that SUDDENLY were illegal in her kingdom... but couldnt get taken serious till the Ammo matter showed her for her true motivations.

[Please Delete]

So, it just came up on the Grand Council list, and may be relevant here: The Crown can trump any law below Corporate, so there is always a line of appeal until you get a ruling from the BoD (though they will likely let Crown rulings stand as long as they are more strict than Corpora).

If anyone ever has a problem with the marshallate, PLEASE say something. Raise it through the marshallate channels, and if you still feel that there is something going on, you can raise it to the Crown. Now, don't just do this because you don't like someone, and be careful of going on a "witch hunt". I recommend documenting any suspected malfeasance and finding other witnesses who have seen the same thing.

It is better to bring these things up to the proper channels than to let them fester


-Ii