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Post by roninpenguin on Jul 26, 2014 16:53:45 GMT -5
Actually Li-dono has been doing a great job (he actually has a wider knowledge base then I do) and I don't think I have too much to add and would only complicate the conversation. The way my thread may help you would be for you to see step by step how I made a friend of mine's armor so you can have a visual reference. A lot of what I did wasn't "Period" but comes out looking period, that was to make it stand up to SCA style combat as well as making it easier to build. When you see someone doing these things sometimes you can have an "Ah HA!" moment where what someone else said clicks into place. Then if you have any questions about what I did specifically I will be more than happy to answer them. Hopefully the images will be back next week. (I hope so I have a project that I've been working on that is almost done that I want to share)
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Post by Tecwyn on Jul 26, 2014 17:07:08 GMT -5
That sounds perfect. Picture speak louder than words, a lot of the time I need to look at images to understand what is going on. I don't know if that has anything to do with learning types or my dyslexia but it is hard using pictures of Do's that are watermarked or low quality. www.toraba.com/ Has a strange way of doing photos I cannot stop the sideshow or make images larger so it is hard to learn from them. I still do not understand how Do's are attached together or the Sode to them (Not even looked at the other parts). I look foward to these pictures! I am in no real hurry so next week sounds good. Good luck with this project you are working on! I believe I will be able to make use of your thread post, thank you.
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Post by Tecwyn on Jul 31, 2014 7:39:30 GMT -5
Cardboard Mockup of Môgami Sode with Sugake odoshi. I am not sure if I am missing a lower hole to keep the bottom together as seen here www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/07graphs/tomegawa.gif but not here www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/mogamiPattern.PDF The 5th row I laced wrong but didnt want to undo to fix it. I also gave up creating holes because it was taking to long. To make the holes I had to stab the cardboard with a small screwdriver then widden it with some scissors. The neater holes on the top lame where done with a hole punch but that couldnt reach any deeper than doing the first 3. I have learnt a bit while doing this, firstly I hate inches it is hard to measure to 0.33" but 8.4 millimetres is easier. Second I will have to spend a while measuring up a template and then just stack another lame ontop of that and drill though a master lame constantly to save time. Issues I have had is getting the spacing right between holes and the size of the holes. 0.15" 3mm seems a little bit to small but I will accept that is correct and I dont have anything to create a good 0.15" hole. I dont know if I need that 4th lower row of holes that are .8" in size to strength the lames. The last lame in my mockup was my first so everything is a mess but I should be able to get 5 rows of holes on there. The last issue I have is with the kanmuri ita, which way does it bend? I see that you attach it to the rest of the lames but the dotted line shows that it folds but I dont know if its bent towards the body or away. i.imgur.com/nZ00nds.jpgi.imgur.com/UMlHbe4.jpgi.imgur.com/RFdxQh6.jpgIf anyone can help clear up some of those issues or provid feedback on my crude mockup that would be brilliant. Thank you.
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Post by roninpenguin on Aug 4, 2014 20:22:10 GMT -5
One thing I see right off the bat is that you are overlapping your plates a little too much, you really don't need more than 1/2" to maybe 3/4. You also have a gap between your first two holes and the third, the space between each should be pretty even, take a look here... sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/sugake.PDFYou notice the only one where the gap is a little farther apart is the one with super small lace. And lastly it looks a little crowded for Sugake Odoshi. Not to say that there were never armors with rows that close together but most of the time the rows are pretty distinctive, your rows are close enough that you could almost do Kebiki Odoshi. Hope that helps.
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 5, 2014 7:02:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, I did try and follow that PDF but it is kinda hard I was having to punch holes with a screwdriver and widde with scissors so holes were messy. Working with cardboard is harder than I thought. I will create a second Sode but this time I will try and take more time in getting the holes a bit better I will also try kebiki odoshi on it and see how it looks. Will edit it onto this when pictures are available. Also trying the paper Do you suggested aswell! Edit (16:10 GMT): I have used the old style yokohagi do plan from sengokudaimyo. I printed off 2 copys of the front to create a 'full' length verison but I need to increase the size so it fits my body but I am having trouble in working out how much I can increase the diameters. Measurements of the printed verison as is, is about 1 1/2" by 5 1/4". What is the average/max hight that a lame can be. The length will simply be as long as it needs to be to cover the front of my body I am unsure how long (vertically) they can be. i.imgur.com/DniNUr1.jpgi.imgur.com/Q8sOGF9.jpgEdit (21:47 GMT): After feedback on the Sode I have tried and created this different verison. The lames are more spaced out you can see the dropping lace(what you couldnt on the other one) overlay is about 1/2". I also added the holes for the second lace that keeps it more together. If anyone can offer feedback on this Sode, I believe its better than the last one. i.imgur.com/Tt27sLu.jpgi.imgur.com/Wj6X6ne.jpgi.imgur.com/RA4zFZI.jpg
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Zed
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by Zed on Aug 6, 2014 10:28:21 GMT -5
The pattern for the dō you'd printed off is 1/2 actual size, you should probably scale it up to full size to get a better idea of how it needs to be altered for yourself
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 6, 2014 16:51:19 GMT -5
I created that first one as just a visual aid to get an idea on what was going on (Knowing it was halfscale). I wanted to try and find out if anyone had any guide lines on how big/small/fat etc lames should be. Today I tried to increase one to see how that would look. I think the length is alright, in fact it is about 30mms (1" and a bit) over lap if I made the back section the same. I guess the lames have to be wider? Lame 4: 3", Lame 3: 2 1/2", Lame 2: 2 1/4" by 10 1/4", Lame 1: 2 1/4" by 10 1/4", Both Tateage: 2 1/4" by 9 1/4" i.imgur.com/rzg7NLl.jpgi.imgur.com/Qeyh8kg.jpgi.imgur.com/4XNZ0r0.jpgEdit (09/08 9:09 GMT): I have created a back piece for the Do. The overlap I have is 1" on one side and 4" on the other (Its uneven because I had no idea how much to do and now oneside is stuck that way). I can either make one side shorter but its hard to print out the plansbecause I am not sure if what I am getting printing out is the same as the blueprints (may be scaled to A4) or just keep with having 2 1/2" overlap on each side, and open it up on the right side in the clamshell style. I am just not very sure on how tight fitting a Do should be but I guess I can come to some decent give. i.imgur.com/BLRb5uG.jpgi.imgur.com/x2oKZal.jpgEdit (10/09 4:45 GMT):
I still 5" total overlap on my front and back lames. I am not sure if I am covering enough of my back, the tateage covers 6"s maybe another 2" is needed unless that is covered by the Munaita? So once again if anyone can look at this pictures and give me some feedback before I go buy a load of material and go crazy. Thank you. i.imgur.com/BLRb5uG.jpg Hole i.imgur.com/fYUN547.jpg Front (Bad photo) i.imgur.com/t2Vsvjz.jpg Right side 1" overlap i.imgur.com/HnnVtS0.jpg Left side 4" overlap i.imgur.com/pc00dVQ.jpg Back (sorry bad photo had no help) i.imgur.com/VOZt2pI.jpg Alt Back
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 23, 2014 11:31:48 GMT -5
So I have been busy this week. Was able to grade to Shodan in iaido and won my Taikai on behalf of the Modan devision. so I am happy to have some free time to contuine my build. I have tried to create the minaita and wakiita. The Tateage/minaita on the back are larger because I printed the front pannels out wrong it was a bit smaller. Everything isn't perfect parts over lap to much and goes a bit to far off. The minaita overlaps 0.2" on either side and the wakiita goes a 1". So if its all "fine" as in almost correct. I will pull it to bits, measure everything and work out what everything should be and then when I am drawing out the parts in the plastic I will make sure to do the parts how they should be. I think this is the best way, loading up the pictures editing them in MSpaint and reprinting them while crossing my fingers is very hit or miss. Wakiita: - Front Wakiita overlaps the other by 2 1/2", Front goes 6/8" to far up, Back goes 1 1/8" to much up. i.imgur.com/nKRgefd.jpg i.imgur.com/Oz05Wfl.jpg i.imgur.com/goS0cj3.jpg i.imgur.com/HBoJSAS.jpgEdit: The Wakiita are ment to overlap by 2" on the right side as this is going to be clamshell. Right know leftside is 2 1/2" overlapped. Mimaita: - Like I said they go a bit to far off the edge but my real concern is that they are covering enough and looking correct. i.imgur.com/osG8mmG.jpgDo: i.imgur.com/6X5D0Pl.jpg i.imgur.com/2D6MhhG.jpg i.imgur.com/7XDlVwK.jpgIf anyone can give some feedback on how it is looking, I want to make sure that my body is being covered correctly I dont want the Do to be to high up on the armpits etc. After posting this I will work on the Wakiita for the other side and try to get one that doesnt overlap as much. If anyone can tell me if the Wakiita and minaita are attach to a Do by any specific lacing mention that would help greatly. Thanks, Tecwyn.
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Post by Please Delete on Aug 24, 2014 7:52:59 GMT -5
The wakiita are attached down at the bittom as normal, but up near the top there is a single attachment that is usually thick, but loose, and allows the wakiita limited movement (a few centimetres?), ideally. Look at the attachment on the first two diagrams here: www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/tateagetypes.PDFTake a very close look on that side at multiple pictures of the type of armor you are building and see if you can't see the attachment method. I don't immediately have a good example now, but if you can't find it I'll do more searching. Ii
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 26, 2014 18:11:42 GMT -5
Thanks Ii that helped a lot. I missed seeing this PDF. I have been working on the Kusazuri I have created 5 lames: 185,190,196,204,210mm in length by 75mm. Columns are 4.9mm apart. Rows are 4.2 apart. Holes are 4mm. 7 Rows, 21 columns then 23 on the last two. Kusazuri:Mark 1: i.imgur.com/Jo8lKXj.jpgEdit (7pm 28/08/14): Kusazuri mark 2: I have reduced the gap at the top to 4.2mm from 14.5. Bottom has gone to 4.6 from 8.8. Overall width down to 61mm instead of 75mm, I think this is a lot better. I'm un sure on how to lace the sides. The style on the left looks a little untidy the right style looks more neat. Opinnons would be helpful. Two different styles- i.imgur.com/5YEG9Xr.jpg Mark 2 on the left, mark 1 on the right- i.imgur.com/uvFJc5H.jpgEdit (11:18, 28/08/14): Sode Mark 3 Kebiki Odoshi and Ô-sode kanmuri ita:Each one is 204mm long and 61mm wide. 21 rows of holes 4mm wide. Total length 12 1/4" Second Pic: i.imgur.com/9Ngf3TB.jpgThird: i.imgur.com/fs5HyAy.jpg
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 28, 2014 10:02:11 GMT -5
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Post by roninpenguin on Aug 28, 2014 20:31:31 GMT -5
I think you need to shrink your Kusazuri so that you can get three in front. I don't think I have seen a Do (and I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong) that didn't have the middle Kusazuri panel to protect the crotch/inner thigh. I have seen some Dos that have 6 Kusazuri but I don't know if they were in period or "Edo Weirdness".
I usually measure my lower front Do divide be 3, then if it is an odd number add that to the middle one to make it a little wider. Then do the same for the rear (but I divide by 4 so I get a total of 7 Kusazuri).
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Post by Please Delete on Aug 28, 2014 21:56:22 GMT -5
Very early dou have only two, but in that case it usually looks like it is a single board in front. Mostly, there should be a set of plates in the middle, and you want them to be very full all the way around. It may be difficult with the way you taped the pattern together, but when you have a solid connection like that, usually another piece is stitched in between, like with this kawatsutsumi-do: Otherwise you just plan on the holes being close together so that you can get the lacing all the way around. You usually want 3 sets in the front, and then the back will depend on the type of armor, but usually 2 or 4 in back, in my experience. -Ii
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 29, 2014 9:43:37 GMT -5
Thanks Ii/Roninpenguin, I just went and borrrowed 3 books from my iaido sensei and started reading them I can see know that there is 3 in front (Unless its one big one). I will work on it, i will remove them and try to reprosition them. They are 185mm wide I could make them smaller if need be. I will aim for 7 this is what I have been seeing throughout. I had to attach them with paper as I had no spare lacing but I have 4 bits of spare lacing of different lengths I will use.
I will post my edited verisons later. Books I am using are "The Samurai recreated" - Mitsuo & Ghislaine, "Elite The samurai"- Anthony J bryant, "The samurai" - Mitsuo.
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Post by Tecwyn on Aug 30, 2014 12:13:44 GMT -5
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