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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 3, 2005 14:56:28 GMT -5
some where I have seen a photo of a converted katana sword that was hanging off a belt. (the person was in armour), the piece looks like a leather wraping with the rings for the tie cords.
does anyone know if this was common in the 16th cen. and if so does anyone have more details for this type of convertsion? thanks
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 3, 2005 15:18:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by 'converted katana sword.' The following is only meant as an outline ... there are several members of the board that know much more about this then I do ... The katana as we know (length, width, and mount) is more of a sixteenth century weapon than anything earlier. Many katana of that time were created by chopping down the longer tachi that was prevalent in the preceding centuries. Before that there was the tachi and the uchigatana. The tachi was generally worn suspended from the belt edge down and the uchigatana was worn with armour, thrust into the obi sort of like the wakizashi is now. Remember that really long, wide obi also start appearing as normal wear in the sixteenth century, but not before. Tachi hangings were starting to loose favor in the sixteenth century and were obsolete or an anachronism by the end of the sengoku. From what I've seen, it appears that the lower ranks were wearing their swords in the modern way (both swords thrust edge upwards in the obi) before the upper ranks copied the style. In this later period, to wear their swords with armour, the Japanese also devised special sword mounts called koshiate. www.yusoku.com/tachishitsurae.htmwww.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/tachi-katana/tachi-katana.jpgrhinohide.cx/tousando/yoriaku/koshiate.htmlwww.pbase.com/joanseeuw/image/41052028/originalwww.pbase.com/joanseeuw/image/41051835/originalwww.pbase.com/joanseeuw/image/41052006/original
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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 4, 2005 19:55:39 GMT -5
I found the pic.. can someone tell me how to post it? thanks
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Yvarg
New Member
Formerly greeneel22
Posts: 198
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Post by Yvarg on Oct 4, 2005 22:47:06 GMT -5
right click on the image, and click on "properties" than triple-click on the text under "location" , copy it, and go back to the add reply page here and paste the URL here with before it and [/img] after it. hope that makes sense
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 5, 2005 9:20:33 GMT -5
If the pic is on the net, then use the following command to post the pic here, just remove the spaces.
[ i m g ] http :// someplace.com / somepic.jpg [ / i m g ]
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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 5, 2005 19:49:16 GMT -5
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Oct 5, 2005 20:08:57 GMT -5
Wow, that looks almost exactly like the harness I made for a friend's tenor recorder so she could hang it around her neck.
I want his pants!
Saionji
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 5, 2005 21:59:01 GMT -5
Ah, ok now I got something to go on... I too was wondering if it was this, or a koshiate as Otagiri-dono suggested.
What you have there sure looks like a basic aluminum-zinc alloy display set. He has outfitted the saya with leather ashi (hanger rings) so it may be tied up in the manner of a tachi.
This was not a common solution to secure your sword in the sengoku era.
Those who continued to wear tachi had ones with proper mounts.
There are a handful of extant koshirae (mounts) that where the tsuka (hilt) is in the handachi (half-tachi) style a kurigata (sageo mount) and removeable ashi, allowing the sword to be converted for wear as tachi or katana. While some are of good quality, I would have to say they fairly uncommon historically.
In the sengoku era, katana were perfered by the rank and file since it could be drawn and brought to bear quickly, tis why it evolved in the first place.
Now all that being said, I have a basic Hanwei/Cas Iberia Practical Katana done up with leather ashi, a brown leather saya-cover, and a tiger skin (printed bunny fir) saya-cover. When it finally ships (if it ever does... been waiting 8 months now) my new blade will have 2 koshirae, 1 a full fledge tachi koshirae, the other a particular style of katana-koshirae I happen to like.
Like anyone else if I had the money, I'd have several tachi and several katana... to represent the diffrent eras.... ah some day.
-Takeda
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 6, 2005 10:50:18 GMT -5
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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 9, 2005 13:06:44 GMT -5
this is basicly what I want to do. does anyone have detailed pics of ashi?
I want to replicate a basic set (just plain, but fuctional). (prefer metal fittings)(please keep in mind, my persona is in the 1600s
I have 2 katana sets that are the same, one sword was damaged beyond repair. the sets are exactly the same, so I am using the extra saya to make a replica of a tachi mount for my other sword. ( 2 different saya for the same blade)
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 13, 2005 12:33:37 GMT -5
this is basicly what I want to do. Does anyone have detailed pics of ashi? Books would be your best bet, you may also do a google search for tachi, and then click over to "images" that should give you quite a few pics to get ideas from. -Takeda
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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 14, 2005 11:11:33 GMT -5
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Oct 14, 2005 11:24:41 GMT -5
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Oct 14, 2005 11:35:24 GMT -5
Now that is what I call a bad hair day! Joking aside, I must have miss-understood what you were looking for. Koshiate seemed to be a pretty popular way of securing the swords while in armor during the latter days of the sengoku period. I have not seen many in scrolls from the sankin-kotai processions, however the scrolls showing the processions usualy proceed from left of page to the right, and the daimyo in armor tends to be wearing a jinbori anyhow.
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Post by Shijo Ichiro on Oct 17, 2005 18:15:07 GMT -5
anyone know about how to make one of the koshi-ate from the last 2 pics??
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