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Post by honagakenshin on May 27, 2010 13:12:15 GMT -5
Hey everyone I know this is probably a stupid question but in heavy combat (SCA) is one allowed to perform shield kicks. I am just looking for a quick answer (I don't really have the time to look it up since school is about to end and every thing is going crazy) Thanks
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Post by Kôriki Ryuushirô Hiroshige on May 27, 2010 14:29:45 GMT -5
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Post by honagakenshin on May 27, 2010 16:52:28 GMT -5
Thought so. Thanks
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Lash
New Member
perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
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Post by Lash on May 27, 2010 18:08:44 GMT -5
depends on the kingdom . Some kingdoms allow cross checking the shield with a weapon(glaive,pole arm) but dont allow contact with your hands or feet.
10. Deliberately striking an opponent’s head, limbs, or body with a shield, weapon haft, or any part of the body is forbidden. This does not say you cannot strike an oponnents SHIELD with any body part or weapon. If this were true we could not have battles with opponents crashing into each other en masse.
I have done knee pops and elbow pops to move a shield for offside strikes and to pin an opponent in close quarters. I see no reason why you cannot kick a shield as long as your not blasting him with a round house or doing a jackie chan flying side kick. but banging the bottom of his shield with a snap kick so a pike man can grill him has been done thousands of time .
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Post by tengumoon on May 28, 2010 1:23:30 GMT -5
Ive been told that as a two handed weapon specialist it is in my best interest and good technique to use a shieldsman's shield against him.
This means: using his shield to defend me using his shield to blind him attacking his shield to create openings to use my body to control his shield and thus control him
the only rule I can think of that applies is : "do not use excessive force"
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Post by Kôriki Ryuushirô Hiroshige on May 28, 2010 7:10:55 GMT -5
Lash-dono
I see where youare comming from, and I agree that to generate an opening, I would have no problem. The image I got from the question was using a far more forceful kick (ie the one that makes your opponent stagger back)
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Lash
New Member
perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
Posts: 422
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Post by Lash on May 28, 2010 13:23:02 GMT -5
I forgot to say to that this thread isnt a "stupid question" its a great question and shows respect for your opponents. Too many fighters make up their own rules. Wouldnt it be cool to just once just blast some one with a round house kick knock em flat and call em dead on the ground!! TTG!!! ( tim taylor grunt) I wouldnt do it but man if someone didnt care about gettin kicked what a blast lol.
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Post by Please Delete on May 30, 2010 21:37:59 GMT -5
On the other hand, think of that nice round-house kick being intercepted by a rattan great sword--probably at about the shin. Or perhaps a polearm. Equal and opposite reactive forces are a pain, especially when the other person isn't worried about anything because they won't feel it (or give as much) through the rattan. As a marshal, I'd be very wary of kicks. They strike me as unsafe in our combat. For one thing, you are striking with your leg below the knee--that's the area we aren't supposed to hit and yet you are bringing it into combat, which hardly seems fair (so your opponent technically isn't allowed to block it). Also, you are risking an off-balance position, making it more likely that you will trip and fall over if you are rushed--perhaps not if you are experienced, but remember, we do not require any particular experience level to start playing SCA, and we don't really restrict techniques based on experience like kendo or other arts do. Remember, if you fall down, we call a hold and let you get back up, which is really unfair if you are doing it to yourself (someone who constantly falls over may be made to take a knee, etc.) If you are in close and using your body (including your knee) to manipulate someone's shield, this is a grey area that depends greatly on what kingdom you are in and what you are doing. That said, outside the SCA I wouldn't mind doing some no-holds barred stuff; I just don't think it is appropriate for an SCA tourney field. -Ii
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Lash
New Member
perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
Posts: 422
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Post by Lash on May 31, 2010 22:13:45 GMT -5
Ii-dono we were talking about shield contact with an appendage not great sword or pike . I do not do many tournies mostly mele so that was the application i was talking about. It would be difficult for a shield man to hit my leg or knee if we were in close combat and I jog his rim or flat snap the side of his shield to can opener him. Up here we do what is called an monkey fight no holds barred tap out or knock out dagger fight . its of course just our group not a sca thing. we dont do it with normal weapons way to dangerous.
You are more than welcome to join us for that . ;D
we do a bear pit where the bear defends and takes all hits but the fight doesnt stop until the dog is killed. so it really bites if you get a dog who is better than you hahahaha. just have to let them wear themselves out beating you to a pulp so you can get a kill in hhahaahha.
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Post by Please Delete on Jun 1, 2010 0:40:48 GMT -5
Ii-dono we were talking about shield contact with an appendage not great sword or pike . I do not do many tournies mostly mele so that was the application i was talking about. It would be difficult for a shield man to hit my leg or knee if we were in close combat and I jog his rim or flat snap the side of his shield to can opener him. This is still one of those "it depends". How you describe it and how someone else does it may be different. The issue with a greatsword, etc. coming into play was that , if you are bringing your leg further up (presumably higher than your walking knee level), then you are bringing it into an area that if someone hits it, I can't really blame them. If you aren't bringing it up that high, then there isn't so much a problem. If you think you are safe, your opponents aren't complaining, and marshals aren't saying anything, then I guess go for it. On the other hand, I don't want someone reading this thread to get the idea that a high-to-medium kick against a shield is a perfectly safe and acceptable manuever in all instances of the SCA. I think this technique is going to depend greatly on its execution and whom you are playing with. -Ii
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Post by arashi on Jun 1, 2010 11:18:52 GMT -5
I don't know about anywhere else, but if any marshal I know saw someone throw a kick in a fight, they would immediately call for a hold and warn the fighter who did so that if they continued to do it they would likely get their authorization revoked.
Several of the knights I know would delight in showing you why you shouldn't put your shins and feet into play in combat as well.
Arashi
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Post by Yamanouchi Eidou on Jun 1, 2010 14:32:05 GMT -5
I think we need a better definition of "Shield kick". In rapier if you tried to kick anything you'd get tossed out so fast it would make your head spin.
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Post by norumanjin on Jun 4, 2010 12:07:57 GMT -5
I don't know about anywhere else, but if any marshal I know saw someone throw a kick in a fight, they would immediately call for a hold and warn the fighter who did so that if they continued to do it they would likely get their authorization revoked. Several of the knights I know would delight in showing you why you shouldn't put your shins and feet into play in combat as well. Arashi I loathe using a shield, on the other hand I don't suck at it - I really don't want to think about what the effect on a shin would be from an aggressive edge block (I never block with the face of a shield) YMMV - but none of this looks like a good idea
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