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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Aug 26, 2010 9:56:16 GMT -5
1) How much lacing of the main color should I expect to use between do, sode, and kusazuri? I purchased a gross (144 yds.) of Rice Braid and only had a little left over, like 10-15 yds., after finishing the do, sode, and kusazuri. You mentioned in the first post you had heard Rice Braid stretches over time. I've been fighting in my armor for 16 months and haven't noticed any change. *shrug*
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Post by roninpenguin on Aug 26, 2010 11:47:10 GMT -5
I found the same thing, I did most of my armor out of Purple lace and went through almost a gross, so close to a gross as a matter of fact that I was starting to get nervous near then end.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Sept 3, 2010 2:14:23 GMT -5
I found a few sources for 3/8" middy braid. Unfortunately, I could only get it in 288 yard spools. That's a lot of braid.... I did a proof of concept test with it, and it turned out shockingly well: I started on the left, and hadn't quite gotten the hang of flattening the braid between the tops of two scales yet. I figured that out after the third try, and the part on the right looks right because I was doing that. Overall, it looks like this is going to work, but I have a few concerns. As advertised, with the 3/8 inch braid there is just barely enough width in the braid to cover everything. When I curve this little section as much as the armor will need to curve to get around the sides of my body, you can see bits of the shita garami peeking out from underneath. It's not a lot, but it is noticeable if you're looking. Would this look better or worse with 1/2 inch middy braid instead? Does it even exist? Unlike the shoelace material I had, this stuff fits through the holes with no issues whatsoever. In fact, this braid is so much thinner that you can even see through the holes a bit after a strand has gone through them. This strikes me as aesthetically unappealing, and seems like a problem that would be solved by upgrading to 1/2 inch wide braid. Where am I supposed to get this braid in other colors? This spool was a random super-cheap find on ebay. I sent an inquiry to the Jay Trim people through their site, but they don't seem interested in selling me anything unless I'm a store. I found an online store that will sell it to me in white, but not in other colors. My attempts to find a range of colors on google has failed. If I continue to have this problem, I will need to find another solution, as I want the main color of lacing to be dark blue (kon ito), as according to Effingham-sensei it is the runaway most common color in late period. Kano-dono, thank you for reassuring me about Rice Braid. I will use them if I continue to struggle to find braid of the correct width in the colors I want elsewhere.
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Sept 3, 2010 9:22:47 GMT -5
Kano-dono, thank you for reassuring me about Rice Braid. I will use them if I continue to struggle to find braid of the correct width in the colors I want elsewhere. NP. I hope whatever you choose works out for you. FYI, though, the red braid in the picture looks almost exactly the same thickness and texture as the 3/8" Rice Braid. If you're worried about gapping between the laces then upgrading to 1/2" might be a good plan. If only they made laces in 7/16" wide...
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Sept 4, 2010 9:54:23 GMT -5
There's no reason in the world not to go with 1/2" if you can find it. Lush is always better, and lack of gapping is a good thing.
I'd suggest a black shitagarami -- it should never show.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Sept 4, 2010 14:05:32 GMT -5
It looks like the only way to get the lacing I want is just to go to Rice Braid, pay a little more than I was hoping, get all four colors I need, then end up with a bunch of extra lacing. That's my current plan. (How much is a gross of rice braid? c_C)
With regard to the gapping issue, tomorrow I'm going to see the Canadian exhibition that was posted in the "Events" forum to get a better look at a real live suit. I'll make a decision about lacing width based on what I see there.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 3, 2010 2:36:00 GMT -5
Greetings! It's been a while. I ended up purchasing 1/2" rice braid in red, dark blue, black, and white. It's not particularly exciting to take pictures of, but it's here. I figure if I'm going to put tons and tons of time into a set of armor, I might as well do it as right as I can. Speaking of doing things right... One part of the directions for making kebiki odoshi scale armor is to make a bunch of half-width scales by cutting scales in half. I'm an apartment-dweller, so this was going to be tricky. Happily, the father of one of my fellow students at the kenjutsu dojo, who happens to be helping that fellow student get into the SCA right about now, volunteered to help me. We built this rig: Scale cutting board by tomlapille, on Flickr That's a piece of plywood attached to an aluminum bar that fits into the table saw groove. Two scales drilled into the plywood combined with a pressure clamp keep the scale that is being cut in place. The width of the table saw meant that we only got one half-piece out of each full scale, but that's okay. After the cut, I sanded the newly-resulting rough edges down to the point where they weren't sharp. Now we have many half-scales, which look like this on a full scale and on their own: Half scale detail by tomlapille, on Flickr Next actions: 1) buy a lighter so I can melt nylon lacing knots into permanence 2) build a pattern out of cardboard to figure out how wide each do maru lame should be 3) lace lace lace lace lace 4) figure out what my kanagu mawari need to be shaped like 5) ask people with tools for help again! In other happy news, my helmet is here. It's an Ice Falcon Armory brand kabuto. I'm not entirely thrilled with its period-ness, as it's going to have the x's and train tracks problem on the shikoro. I commissioned it six months ago when I knew a lot less, but it will be fine for now. I worked with a different person today to get it padded and install a chin strap. I will post pictures of this once I get the shikoro put together.
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on Oct 3, 2010 9:36:00 GMT -5
Brilliant work. I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 4, 2010 3:00:46 GMT -5
Some shita garami happened. Shita garami by tomlapille, on Flickr That's one board. At this point, it's nearly wide enough to go around me entirely at a level right above the hip, which I believe is where the lowest maru do lame should end. I'm intending to attach the kusazuri to the do directly, so this will hopefully be that bottom lame. This is going very well. The 1/2" rice braid seems perfect. The stands are getting a little stretched after getting pulled through lots of holes, which is causing it to thin out to about 7/16" in places. The 3/8" braid would likely shrink to less than that, which seems like it would leave gaps on the vertical lacing, which is what happened with the 3/8" middy braid that I tried. My guess is that 1/2 inch lacing is just better for these scales.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 6, 2010 2:53:13 GMT -5
Kusazuri boards by tomlapille, on Flickr It's working! It's working! Things learned: - The bottom board's cross laces make it easier to bend around you and harder to bend the opposite way. I don't know how much this matters, but it's neat.
- After the braid has been in and out of several holes, the width becomes inconsistent due to stretching. This doesn't really matter when I'm using one piece of lacing to go all the way across a shorter kusazuri board in shita garami, but will cause ugliness if I make the lacing pieces too long on the suspensory lacing. It looks like I'll need to use much shorter lengths there to keep everything nice.
- This is going to look totally awesome
I also discovered something interesting. I'm a pretty skinny guy. The listed directions on Effingham-sensei's site indicate that a maru do is supposed to taper in as it gets to the bottom. Having measured my body to see how wide each lame needs to be to fit me, I discovered that I am the widest at the hip due to a small but relevant amount of belly fat and not particularly huge pectoral muscles. Tapering the do inward at the bottom will make the fit very loose in the upper body. My first instinct was to just use the same number of scales for all five kabuki do lames, but even that leaves a small amount of extra room in the top three lames. Absent any feedback, my instinct is that the do is supposed to fit me cleanly, so I would taper it in slightly as I go up to fit my body. Am I supposed to do something else?
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Post by Please Delete on Oct 6, 2010 3:42:51 GMT -5
Awesome So, a question, as I haven't tried the actual scale, yet: If it holds up to taking a counter-curve in the wrong direction, then would it be useful to lace it while curved, in the first place, to help it hold its shape even better? Or would it not quite work like that? -Ii
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hiro
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Post by hiro on Oct 6, 2010 17:26:47 GMT -5
That is going to be pretty spiff. Can't wait to see it running around wars in Antir next season!
Good work!
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 6, 2010 17:28:54 GMT -5
It doesn't hold up to much of a counter-curve, and quickly snaps back when you let it go. Effingham-sensei's page says that shiki are not necessary with these scales, so I wasn't planning on using them.
A further question: The section on do lining states this:
"Solid dô are generally lined with a layer of thin leather that is glued down and lacquered into place. Dô are made of scale are not typically so lined, however. Many cheaper armours are lined with heavy cloth or brocade glued into place. These linings are the last thing done, so all the lacing is finished and the fittings installed before the lining is set in place. Only the cheapest armours are left bare."
I'm not sure how to interpret this. The do I'm making will be scale, but I don't want it to be one of "the cheapest armors". Am I supposed to use the cloth lining option?
I saw the Return of the Samurai exhibit at the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria earlier this month, where there was a scale suit from the late 16th century. I've emailed the curator asking if it is lined and if so what material it is, so without any other information I'm just going to do whatever he tells me that suit is done with.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 6, 2010 23:29:32 GMT -5
Kusazuri in progress by tomlapille, on Flickr I've hit another snag. There are several holes here which will need two strands of lacing to go through them, and the holes just aren't big enough now that I have 1/2" wide lacing. I melted the ends into points and tried to drag two strands through at the same time, and it's just not going to happen. My instinct is that I am just supposed to drill the holes that need two strands in them a little bigger. Is this correct?
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Oct 7, 2010 6:02:06 GMT -5
My instinct is that I am just supposed to drill the holes that need two strands in them a little bigger. Is this correct? No. Leave the hole the same size. Don't try to put them through together. Put one through and then tease the point on the other through. It *will* be difficult, but it will also help lock the laces on that hole.
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