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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 8, 2010 0:28:18 GMT -5
I tested this method using the section of armor I made out of red lacing with red shita garami up above. That lacing is 3/8" wide, and it worked easily. However, I was unsatisfied with how anemic that looked when it was done, between one strand not filling up a hole to the point where it could not be seen through and the lack of overlap between strands in the suspensory lacing. I'm using 1/2" wide lacing now, and... Lacing close-up by tomlapille, on Flickr ...I tried the tease-it-through-the-tiny-hole method, even while pulling the lacing as taut as I could, as I am in this picture, and there just doesn't seem to be enough room. To make the point right now, I'm cutting the lacing off at a sharpish angle and burning the cut edge with a candle lighter for a half a second so it doesn't fray. This does not seem to produce a point that has enough oomph to get through the tiny space that is there. Is there a better way to make the point? If there isn't, I'm not sure I will be able to get away without drilling.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 8, 2010 0:39:44 GMT -5
A thought: If I can get nylon thread, perhaps I can melt that into the tip of the cut lacing and use the thread to start the lacing through the hole?
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Oct 8, 2010 2:20:02 GMT -5
Wrap the tip with tape (the slick stuff like packaging tape) only one or two layers angled to lengthen the point. If it breaks try again with a couple of strands of fiberglass wrapping tape inside longitudinally for strength.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 8, 2010 14:50:02 GMT -5
That technique worked for getting 3/8" lacing through a hole that already had 3/8" lacing, for getting 1/2" lacing through a hole that already had 3/8" lacing, and for getting 3/8" lacing through a hole that already had 1/2" lacing. It still doesn't work for getting 1/2" lacing through 1/2" lacing; I can get it started, but then it just gets stuck.
Is it legal to have the mimi ito be a little narrower than the rest of the braid? I think that would solve most of my problems, as with a manchira and my leg armor on, the body of the do doesn't need to taper at all to fit me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 10:58:07 GMT -5
I've been noodling on this for a few days. I don't have any experience lacing armor, but I have lots of experience with lacing itself, so maybe one of these will work? I don't know. The first idea is to put some heat-shrink tubing (as used in electronics) over the end of the braid. Three or four inches might be enough. Put it half over the end of the braid and half off, so that when you shrink it it not only compresses the braid but creates a narrower tip to help thread it through the hole. You could also sew a thread loop through the end of the braid and up through the tube before shrinking to help keep it from slipping off. You'll need to carefully shrink the tubing with a heat gun if you don't want to melt the lacing at the same time. The other idea is to get some Teflon tape (as used in plumbing) to act as a dry lubricant. Wrap it around the running end of the lacing to help it slip past the existing lacing. I'd be worried about the Teflon tape shredding while you do this and leaving you with little wisps of Telfon sticking out of all the holes in your armor, so maybe start in the back.
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Post by mandaloril on Oct 25, 2010 10:24:32 GMT -5
Looking really good, just out of curiosity where did you end up finding 1/2" Middy Braid?
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Oct 25, 2010 11:20:40 GMT -5
I ordered the lacing I'm using from Rice Braid. They have both 1/2" and 3/8". It's a bit pricey, but they have tons of colors and were friendly.
As it turns out, the 1/2" lacing may cause problems where you need two laces to go through one hole. I know for sure that the 3/8" lacing will work, although it doesn't look quite as nice. Hopefully I'll be able to report in the next few weeks that I solved the two-laces problem. I've been somewhat busy, so mostly I've just been lacing a ton of kusazuri boards rather than running around to buy the different solutions that have been suggested.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Dec 26, 2010 3:34:57 GMT -5
Now that I finished the kamishimo I recently posted on the wafuku boards, I'm back to working on this.
I'm considering changing from a do maru to a haramaki. It seems easier to build, and adjusts to changes in body weight. These are happy things. It also feels more elegant to me, as I don't like the idea of having overlap bunched underneath one arm but not the other. This wil require some recalculation and rebuilding of all the kusazuri boards, which totally sucks, but I think will give me an armor that I feel better about in the long run.
My only confusion is how to put the thing on without help, as I'm not convinced that my arms are long enough to do the coward's plate while the rest of it is already on me. My guess is that I would attach the coward's plate while the do is sitting on the ground, pull the assembled do over my head, attach the front toggles from the tateage to the watagami, and tie the thing shut with the cords from the bottom of the coward's plate. Is this correct?
The other issue I have is an issue with front and back height. Effingham-sensei's site is quite explicit when it says that laced lames are supposed to overlap by 1/2". This means that the exposed length of an Effingham plate is 2.25". The fewest allowable number of lames for the body seems to be four, which requires two lames for the front tateage and three for the back. Several diagrams on the site show the exposed height of the two watagami attachment points on the solid plates that top the front and back tateage as the same as the exposed height of a lame.
My calculations based on these observations are that my front height of the do is 16.25" and the back height is 18.5". This seems way too high, as that puts the points of the front tateage about 4.5" above my nipples and the points of the back tateage about two inches below the tops of my shoulders. At that point there almost isn't anything for the watagami to do, and that seems wrong.
I could use a .75" lame overlap, which reduces the front height to a more reasonable 14.75" and the back height to 16.75". These numbers seem to give the watagami a reason to exist, but also make my chest and upper back feel a little exposed. I would an idea of what landmarks on the body I should be looking to hit with the tops of the tateage.
Put more simply, what I need to know is:
How do I put on a haramaki do and coward's plate?
How high are the front and back tateage supposed to go compared to landmarks on the body?
Thank you!
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Jan 2, 2011 17:08:04 GMT -5
I can't get two strands of half inch wide lacing through an un-widened hole in these scales. There simply isn't enough room. This means that to get the mimi ito through in a historically correct way, I need to use 3/8" lacing for either the mimi ito or the lacing that the mimi ito needs to pull over. That's also wrong, because real armors don't do that. I'm switching to 3/8" lacing. Here's a comparison of the two sizes: Lacing width test by tomlapille, on Flickr The 3/8" lacing is just barely wide enough. I don't get the tiny bit of overlap on every strand, but there isn't any gapping, so I think I'm safe. I'm also pleased with how much I can get the diagonal bits touching even with the narrower lacing if I take care, as I did on the right of the bottom set of lacing. This is a bit unfortunate, as I had 1/2" lacing in all the colors I wanted, but I want to do this right.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Jan 2, 2011 17:49:05 GMT -5
I have some new questions about lacing. 1. How does cross-lacing work with scale lames?I would prefer to use cross-lacing to attach the scales to the kanagu mawari at the top. However, I'm not sure if I can. Have a look at this. Kanagu Mawari Cross Laces by tomlapille, on Flickr If I'm going to do cross laces, I'm going to have to open those top holes myself. That doesn't feel right, so I'm pretty sure I'm just going to do suspensory lacing instead unless someone tells me otherwise. 2. Where do I knot... eh, just look at this picture.Mimi ito question by tomlapille, on Flickr The grey lines represent the mimi ito, which goes on top of everything else. I think the latter option is correct. A final note: I have gotten a ton out of big threads like this about people's projects that become collection buckets of the problems they found and overcame. Because of that, I wanted to build one myself to add to the collective knowledge. However, I haven't been getting a lot of responses as this thread has gotten big. If that continues, I'll be asking questions in individual threads instead.
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Jan 3, 2011 0:17:23 GMT -5
I have some new questions about lacing. 1. How does cross-lacing work with scale lames?I would prefer to use cross-lacing to attach the scales to the kanagu mawari at the top. However, I'm not sure if I can. Have a look at this. Kanagu Mawari Cross Laces by tomlapille, on Flickr If I'm going to do cross laces, I'm going to have to open those top holes myself. That doesn't feel right, so I'm pretty sure I'm just going to do suspensory lacing instead unless someone tells me otherwise. On my dou, I just opened up those extra holes myself so I could do the cross lacing for the kanagu mawari. I don't see why doing so wouldn't feel right. It works fine and looks fine (although I need to trade out the 1/4 inch parachute cord for something thicker, so the cross laces don't look like X's) Fairly sure that yes, the second option is correct. You should just knot that bit of suspensory cord behind the lame. The mimi-ito should not have another cord underneath it on that final kozane on the right. Also, I notice you have the half-kozane on the far left. Do you also have a half-kozane behind the final kozane on the far right? Because you should. I found that out after the fact when the far right kozane on my lames kept breaking.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Jan 3, 2011 0:21:14 GMT -5
I sure do! Thanks for your answers. I think I'll go ahead and open up those holes, as cross laces just feel better to me.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Jan 3, 2011 2:08:18 GMT -5
Getting there... Haramaki boards, without kusazuri/sode/se-ita by tomlapille, on Flickr Next up is the fun task of taking apart all the kusazuri boards I made before to make correct ones. About half them aren't laced tight enough to be seriously protective, and all of them are two scales too long. Hopefully that will be done by the time I get the correct order of scale in the mail...
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Post by kazuyama on Jan 3, 2011 14:28:41 GMT -5
I have very little experience in this field, but I would recommend a pizza party, and tell all your friends after they get their pizza to get to lacing!
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laurentk
New Member
The smallest things can be surprising.
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Post by laurentk on Jan 3, 2011 17:06:16 GMT -5
I'd come and help for pizza.
Heck, since I'm interested in the process, I might be willing to help just so I could see the process first hand.
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