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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Jun 23, 2005 8:27:21 GMT -5
Hey that sounds like an 60's pop song
Kosode Sode
Kosode Sode
You are my kimono girl ...
Any way, Makiwara-hime leaves one question somewhat ambiguous on her site. (The following questions are asked from a Momoyama point of view)
Kosode sleeves attach to the body of the kosode for only 6 or 8 inches from the point of the shoulder and then they hang free. (or do they ... some mention is made of sleeves which attach their entire length).
But then do the sleeves get sewn shut in back at the point where they hang free?
Does the kosode get sewn shut right up to the point where it meets the sleeve? Or does the seam stop a few inches before that point leaving a small 'gap' at the armpit?
And is there a difference in the shape of the sleeve for boys and girls?
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 23, 2005 8:34:17 GMT -5
As far as I can tell from examining photos, you can have attached or swinging sleeves. If you have swinging sleeves, the back of the sleeve below the section attached at the shoulder will be open - a contrasting lining would look great here. Sleeve shape appears to be pretty much the same during this period for both sexes. Besides, remember, most of the extant garments are men's. Tokyo National Museumshows lots of figures playing that badminton-like game and you can see sleeve details because their arms are out. Whoa, must dash to work! M. |
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Jun 23, 2005 8:45:01 GMT -5
Sleeve shape appears to be pretty much the same during this period for both sexes. Besides, remember, most of the extant garments are men's. ... shows lots of figures playing that badminton-like game and you can see sleeve details because their arms are out. Hmmm... Definately shows the sleeves with a curve and partially closed in front. Even for the guy in the lower right wearing kamishimo. Thanks, hime. That's good documentation. But the guy second from the left on this pic from Hiraizumi sensei shows a square sleeve with no closure!  Ay Curumba! |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 23, 2005 11:56:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I LOVE that picture.
COuld it be a keikogi?
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Jun 23, 2005 12:09:41 GMT -5
...Could it be a keikogi? ... It does kinda look like one doesn't it? Sleeve shape looks like it, shape and size of the collar, and it almost looks like there is the (quilting?) that they put on the collars to make them substansial. In response to Otagiri's question though, I have not seen any without a proper collar (though my exposure is limited) and with the method of construction (single seam up the back, the front of the garment is cut away...) Implies they would do something to finish the edge. Without seeing pictures of the garment itself, it is difficult to distinguish. One of my "cheater methods" is to turn back the cutout and make the straight parts of the collar from them, and then do a square bais-tape edge for the back of the neck. Heck, for a kataginu to take 5 cuts, and 7 rows of stiching to complete... (about 20 minutes) I like it  He who tries to do as little sewing as possible... |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Jun 23, 2005 14:00:42 GMT -5
I have to credit Ii-dono on this. He sent me some photos for the Samurai Eye project. I noticed the sleeve peeking out from under his kataginu didn't look like a kosode sleeve. He'd worn a keikogi instead.
Just remember, folks, sometimes that extra seam is structural or is essential to make a garment hang right. ;->
She who is maniac enough to hand sew everything.
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on Jun 23, 2005 16:00:07 GMT -5
No, it's a kosode. It just looks like one 'cause you're seeing it straight from the front; all the "shape" of the sleeve is in the back.
Effingham
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Jun 23, 2005 16:44:34 GMT -5
No, it's a kosode. It just looks like one 'cause you're seeing it straight from the front; all the "shape" of the sleeve is in the back. Effingham Ahhh... I see it now. The opening of the sleeve has 'folded' into three points with sewn bottom part directly in the back. Thank you! |
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