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Mon
Feb 7, 2005 15:21:05 GMT -5
Post by Seiichirô on Feb 7, 2005 15:21:05 GMT -5
Hello.
I was wondering about mon. May I use an already established one, of should I design one from scratch?
Thanks.
-Akiyama Seiichiro Mitsusada (really hoping I have my name properly constructed)
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Mon
Feb 7, 2005 16:53:05 GMT -5
Post by Saionji Shonagon on Feb 7, 2005 16:53:05 GMT -5
Hello. I was wondering about mon. May I use an already established one, of should I design one from scratch? If it's for SCA use, you cannot have a device (or mon) that someone else already has, either historically (e.g., the personal badge of Henry V), modern usage (e.g.,the state flag of Maryland) or within the Society itself. My European device got returned twice because it was too similar to something someone else had, and had to have design elements modified and added before there was sufficient difference for it to pass - and yes, Henry V's personal badge was the first conflict. ;-> Further, SCA heraldic rules require that your mon has to be a design that can be described using European heraldic terms. It's a good idea to know the basic rules of how the SCA heraldry process works. Having an idea what's acceptable and what's not will increase your likelihood of success. www.sca.org/heraldry/welcome.html can get you started. Once you come up with something, if you want to toss ideas here, I think we have some herald types on the list who may be able to offer suggestions. Good luck, Makiwara
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Yvarg
New Member
Formerly greeneel22
Posts: 198
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Mon
Mar 5, 2005 1:05:14 GMT -5
Post by Yvarg on Mar 5, 2005 1:05:14 GMT -5
i have a question on the origin of a mon. i have this in many places (online in a gallery of different mon, on a japanese quiver, and in a series of videogames) does anyone here know who this mon originally belonged to? www.jedi-knight2.de/prefabs/bilder/triforce.jpgi have a suspicion there might be a connection to the videogame's creator and his ancestors...
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Mon
Mar 5, 2005 1:55:33 GMT -5
Post by Ryokai on Mar 5, 2005 1:55:33 GMT -5
Mons usually were shared ammong many clans. That particular mon belonged to the Hojo clan, as well as a few other lesser clans. Mon research is really fun if you ever take the time to get into it.
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Yvarg
New Member
Formerly greeneel22
Posts: 198
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Mon
Mar 15, 2005 0:08:06 GMT -5
Post by Yvarg on Mar 15, 2005 0:08:06 GMT -5
did the hojo clan happen to have anyone by the name of miyamoto in it?
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Mon
Mar 15, 2005 0:34:52 GMT -5
Post by AJBryant on Mar 15, 2005 0:34:52 GMT -5
Rather unlikely, as "Miyamoto" isn't a given name.
Your question is the equivalent of "Did the Smith fmaily happen to have anyone by the name of Jones in it?"
Tony
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Mon
Mar 15, 2005 8:10:29 GMT -5
Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 15, 2005 8:10:29 GMT -5
True,
Also I am curious as to which Hojo you are talking about, the Regency from Kamakura, or the "Hojo" from the latter 15th and 16th century?
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Mon
Mar 15, 2005 13:49:27 GMT -5
Post by AJBryant on Mar 15, 2005 13:49:27 GMT -5
Or the modern family of restaurateurs? (Hey, someone had to say it....) Tony (feeling silly and over-caffeinated)
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Mon
Mar 15, 2005 21:11:35 GMT -5
Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 15, 2005 21:11:35 GMT -5
(Hey, someone had to say it....) And here I was congratulating myself on being virtuous about Not Going There. Tony (feeling silly and over-caffeinated) And this is news how? ;-> M.
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Mon
Mar 22, 2005 7:59:11 GMT -5
Post by Please Delete on Mar 22, 2005 7:59:11 GMT -5
If it's for SCA use, you cannot have a device (or mon) that someone else already has, either historically (e.g., the personal badge of Henry V), modern usage (e.g.,the state flag of Maryland) or within the Society itself. I don't believe this is quite the case any more. In July of 1994 'A Modest Proposal' was finally adopted, at which time the Laurel Sovereign at Arms of the SCA accepted a list of 'Important' arms to be protected. In that vein, I would say that anything should be open in Japanese arms as long as you avoid anything that can be proven to have been exclusive. For instance, you could not use the Chrysanthemum because by Emperor Gotoba it was in use as an Imperial mon, and by at least the later Kamakura appears to be exclusively for their use, unless they give it out. The only other family I know of with exclusive use to arms was post-period as that was the Tokugawa, who took the hollyhock as their personal family arms and disallowed anyone else from using it (including the Matsudaira from whom they had sprung). So, in the SCA any mon that can be described by Western Heraldry and doesn't conflict with another registered device or an 'Important' device should pass. -Ii
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Mon
Mar 22, 2005 11:32:19 GMT -5
Post by AJBryant on Mar 22, 2005 11:32:19 GMT -5
Ah, but virtue is its own reward.... while other people get the yuks. Yeah, gotta give ya that one... Tony
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Mon
Mar 22, 2005 16:16:23 GMT -5
Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 22, 2005 16:16:23 GMT -5
...In July of 1994 'A Modest Proposal' was finally adopted, at which time the Laurel Sovereign at Arms of the SCA accepted a list of 'Important' arms to be protected...anything should be open in Japanese arms as long as you avoid anything that can be proven to have been exclusive... In that set here is the following historical registered mon: 1. Imperial Japanese Naval Ensign, Gyronny of thirty- two gules and argent, a torteau. 2. Flag of Japan, Argent, a torteau guels. 3. Emperor of Japan, Dark, a sixteen-petalled chrysanthemum light. 4. Tokugawa, Dark, three hollyhock leaves in pall inverted tips to centre within and stems conjoined to an annulet light. Not a whole lot of historical stuff registered. -Takeda Sanjuichiro (Edit Note: I am not condoning ripping off historical mon, just a general obsevation)
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Mon
Mar 28, 2005 13:45:14 GMT -5
Post by Ishikawa Yoshimasa on Mar 28, 2005 13:45:14 GMT -5
nor am I condoning the use of historical (or even family) mon that would be "apropriate" to your persona as personal mon, but if the CoH is lightening up on mon, it would open up legitimate use of a historical mon as "it is the banner of my clan" not unlike the scotish personas who wear known clan tartans to display a sence of connection to thier personas roots (lets not go into the argument that the known clan tartans didn't exist prior to victorian period I am well aware of it) or more importantly use of legitimate variation of a known mon where the collage of heralds wouldn't be as likely to refuse it on grounds of "you need 1.5 more points of difference from the yamaha mon"
while we are on the subject of mon... I am but weeks from being able to complete documentation of my name one way or the other... when I do I intend to submit it, and would like to submit device and badges as mon as well...
I have the following ideas for my submissions, and would like some advice/help with them.
Device: here I am realy coming up blank... I know the charge I am looking for is a dragon fly, but I do not know how to go about using it so it will look like proper personal mon.
Date-dono, you are the only person I know of using a dragonfly, so I beg your assistance in this respect.
badges: I realy want to submit a matched set of two badges with a note of "both or none" the charge I am looking at is 3 ya(arrows) conjoined at the nock. I intend for one badge to besable field (black background) with or arrows (gold arrows) while my alternate badge would be the reverse color of black on gold.
last I looked a couple months ago, the closest conflict I had was 3 arrows conjoined (from discription that should be joined at the shaft which while being writen simularly will display quite differently...
further I was wondering if it is possible to only use the fletched shafts as the arrow heads are not important to my design.
Iwakawa Yoshimasa
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