Tattos among samurai?

[Hiroyuki]

I have always wondered whether or no the samurai were ever into tattooing themselves...

I know warrior cultures through the ages have done it... but I could never find any information as to whether samurai did it or not....

Can anyone shine some light on my query?

[Saionji Shonagon]

I have always wondered whether or no the samurai were ever into tattooing themselves...

"THIS is WHAT you GET for **** aROUND with YaKUza."

or at least Googling "history japanese tattoo."

www.artelino.com/articles/japanese_tattoo_art.asp
www.keibunsha.com/hst_jt.html
tattoos.com/jane/steve/japan.htm

Saionji the inkless

[Katayama Hiromoto]

Tono,

Hmmm... Sounds like a yes to me.

Katayama,
Also sans body-art

[Hiroyuki]

so what i can see from the first two sites, it wasn't too popular until the edo period, namely after the 18th century... good to know...

The third states that tattoos were used to mark criminals! That is a useful bit of information!

Thank you kindly for these sites Makiwara- hime...

Hiroyuki, the not so un-inked

[Toastygonea]

In one of Turnbull's books (Samurai Warriors, I forget the year), he makes mention that the men who bore the enclosed chairs (I forget the term... I'll look it up and edit the post) that men of importance often traveled in were often elaborately tattooed. This was toward the Edo period, if I'm not mistaken.

[Kagehide]

So, does that make tattooes period for sengoku?

[AJBryant]

Yes, but only for criminals and peasant scum.


Effingham

[Brian]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but could tattoosbyjay add anything to this? Any information on pre-Edo tattoos I would be most interested in.

I have enough tattoos that they would likely have to be part of my persona. If they are definitively a lower class thing, then I guess I'm stuck as the bad guy.

[AJBryant]

In the Yayoi period, there is evidence of facial tatooing.

By the 7th century, it was gone.

Tattooing in Japan has always been to mark criminals, and there is speculation that the ornate tattoos of the yakuza had their origins in covering up judicial tattoos. Jury's out on that one, but it makes sense.

Even today, in Japan tattoos have a stigma attached to them -- so much so that many spas and swimming pools will not admit you if you have a tattoo.

No one of any rank or station would have them.

(And don't bring up the Edo city magistrate Toyama Zaemon-no-Jo Kagemoto -- he got the tattoos when he was a gambler and a playboy in his youth, a sub-sub-sub son who had no expectations of rising to any office.)

[Brian]

Thank you; yes, I was very much aware of the modern stigma of tattoos in Japan.

So, a different question: Are my tattoos too extensive to ignore in my persona? I have no particular desire to hide them when at play (I already do at work). Should they be incorporated into my persona? In other words, am I likely to never attain any position of respect in the SCA Japanese community?

I get that we willfully ignore such matters as thoroughly modern eyeglasses and haircuts, but is this too much disbelief to be suspended? I'm interested in peoples' honest opinions, not in the politically correct answer.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2013 7:59:00 GMT -5 Brian said:

I get that we willfully ignore such matters as thoroughly modern eyeglasses and haircuts, but is this too much disbelief to be suspended? I'm interested in peoples' honest opinions, not in the politically correct answer.

Personally, it's not too much. I know many SCAdians, both Japanese persona and non, who have tattoos, and the absence or presence of tattoos makes little difference to my opinion of them. Their honor in the SCA has vastly more influence on my opinion. I don't want to say, "Don't worry about it," because I'm sure you'll get negative attitude from some SCAdians over your ink, but I'm sure that happens in mundane life, too. I have met some people who get period haircuts for Pennsic, and I do have a higher SCAdian opinion of them, so I don't want to claim perfect impartiality either.

I don't have influence in SCA opinion, so take all that with a grain of salt of course. If I had real influence in the SCA, fencers would be getting knighted already; I'm just saying.

[Brian]

Thank you for your refreshingly blunt opinion!

I know tattoos are more common these days, but I am in the category of "women clutch their purses tighter, and pull their kids near."

Their is the world we want, and the world we have. I can work towards the first, but in the meantime live in the second.

No worries on the last bit; I'm looking for a variety of opinions from the crowd, not one authoritative answer.

[Saionji Shonagon]

Brian,
Your hide, your rules. ;-D Don't worry about whether your personal art collection jives with your persona. I know a couple ladies out here who like to wear late period German dresses which tend to expose tats on their upper backs and nobody bats an eye.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2013 9:06:54 GMT -5 Brian said:

I know tattoos are more common these days, but I am in the category of "women clutch their purses tighter, and pull their kids near."

Where I'm working now in Pittsburgh there are like nine tattoo studios within walking distance. In this neighborhood, if the moms were clutching their purses it would be because they can't afford more ink just now and they don't want to be tempted.

[Saionji Shonagon]

From what I can see of your profile pic, you look like half the guys that were at fighter practice last night. Of course, I'm in the SF Bay Area. ;-D