This isn't made up this is oral and written tradition there are various Asian ppl who claim Africa as there origin such as the Sambo Naga of Indonesia also speaking in context doesn't the origin of the word "samurai" mean black headed ones,but sure we can rationalize that in many ways. This is typical white washed information being displayed at its finest. The so called "great thinkers" of Greece and Rome recognize the African origins of humanity yet western scholars instead give rights of origin to the Greeks were all of them from Plato to socrates say the ppl of Kemet (egypt) were African and they owe all there respects to it I believe one of them stated "the education in Kemet (egypt) made the ppl more alert and nurturing, where the education in Greece was good enough for training pigs" Now the Egyptians them self give origin to nubia kush the south Central areas near ladle Victoria that is the origin of the Egyptian ppl.
To the topic Dr. Ivan van sertima had completely covered this topic Dr jhon henrik Clarke Dr AA yosef Ben Jocannan Dr cheikh anta diop Dr Booker T Coleman/ kaba The African presence in early Asia This matter was handled in the 60s ppl need to update there information and stop being bias toward African origin
This isn't made up this is oral and written tradition there are various Asian ppl who claim Africa as there origin such as the Sambo Naga of Indonesia
Paleontologists tell us that we all came from Africa by one route or another. More recently, there were active trade routes from East Africa to places like Indonesia during period. This is all well documented, and you do not need to appeal to any sort of oral history.
the origin of the word "samurai" mean black headed ones.
Nope. It comes from the verb "saburau" which means "to serve". A dictionary definition for the verb can be found here.
The so called "great thinkers" of Greece and Rome recognize the African origins of humanity yet western scholars instead give rights of origin to the Greeks were all of them from Plato to socrates say the ppl of Kemet (egypt) were African and they owe all there respects to it I believe one of them stated "the education in Kemet (egypt) made the ppl more alert and nurturing, where the education in Greece was good enough for training pigs" Now the Egyptians them self give origin to nubia kush the south Central areas near ladle Victoria that is the origin of the Egyptian ppl.
Modern militantism aside, the Greeks actually did produce produce great thinkers. Lots of other places produced great thinkers as well. As for ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a very interesting and rather cosmopolitain place. Different dynasties of pharaohs came from a bunch of different places. There were Ethiopian, Semetic, Persian, and Greek rulers of Egypt before the Romans took over the place. As for your quote. I very much doubt that it comes from either Plato or Socrates. Socrates of course never wrote anything that survives to this day. Plato did write a bunch of books in which Socrates is the star character. Plato and presumably Socrates opposed the traditional practice of itinerant private tutors and instead proposed a system of state schools overseen by a Minister of Education. Plato established a school called the Academy. Regardless, while you will find a city of pigs discussed in the Republic, I very much doubt that you will find a Socratic source for your quote.
As for Africans in Japan. We have solid iconographic evidence of black Africans in Japan during the sixteenth century in the company of Iberians. We can probably adduce genetic propagation as there is a minority tight curly hair gene expressed by some ethnic Japanese in Japan today. As for interesting people in Japanese antiquity. Apparently the first recorded Sei-i-tai-shōgun had red hair. Basically, contrary to current monogenetic mythology in Japan, the Japanese are a hybrid people like people in most if not all other places.
As for 坂上 田村麻呂 Saka'no'ue Tamura-maro he is supposed to be recorded in the Shoku Nihongi which states that his family came from China. It is of course possible that his family originated in a colony of black Africans in China as China was and continues to be multi-ethnic. If he was indeed dark skinned, his family could have also originated in India or even Australia before migrating to China. Unfortunately, I do not own a copy of the Shoku Nihongi and it is not included in the Japanese Text Initiative at the University of Virginia, so I can not look up the actual text. Unfortunately for your theory, the『田邑麻呂伝記』appears to describe Sakanouye no Tamuramaro as having yellow hair. And, the『田村麻呂薨伝』describes him as having a red face and yellow hair. If anything, he sounds more like a Scandinavian than a black African.
Also look up Yasuke. He was also a samurai of African descent. So yes, it is possible that Sakanouye no Tamuramaro could also be of African descent as well. We shouldn't be so closed minded to the idea that Africans only did great things, only in Africa.
Post by Please Delete on Mar 25, 2016 22:02:13 GMT -5
Yasuke is definitely known to be of African descent. He was brought there by the Europeans in the 16th century.
There were tremendous links with China in the 8th century, with people, goods, and animals of all stripes and colors flowing into the Middle Kingdom.
That said, there is nothing about Sakanoue no Tamuramaro that provides credible evidence that he was black in any sense that we would know it. This is, unfortunately, an overblown fantasy derived from a translation of "black blood". Why would they have mentioned his blood and not his skin, hair, eyes, and other features that would have clearly marked him as far outside of the Japanese norm?
The San people are some of the oldest out there. The Australians show evidence of one of the great migrations of the early era, traveling along the coast and making it to that island continent thousands of years before other migrations out of Africa that settled much of the rest of the world. There is plenty in Africa and of Africa to be proud of. If you are in the SCA and want to be a black samurai, that is also perfectly acceptable and is as documentable as a Caucasian samurai.
Your logic is flawed, though, when you say that Yasuke was a samurai of African descent and therefore Sakanoue could be as well. 関係なし, I'm afraid.
Your "San" comment would seem to indicate that all people should look like them? I'm not sure I follow that logic, either.
I know you want this, but you need to show actual evidence, not just wishful thinking.
PS: Please notice: I'm not disputing the facts of the San or of Yasuke. They just don't have anything to do with Sakanoue.
With regards to your wondering whether Sakanouye no Tamuramaro was a black shogun. Why could he not be?? Africans were and existed still to this day and then All over the world! But as an African American, I understand and expected your kind of response. Because one is Japanese (that's if you are Japanese) it does not mean that a piece of Japanese history that you have never heard of is not legit hence; your response is typical and we as AF Am's are used to that. For your thinking and mindset is in alignment with European Americans meaning that; if its black in origin, it can't possibly be true, its made up, its black propaganda etc etc. Remember; AF-Am's are NOT your enemy. It was not African Americans that dropped not one but two atomic bombs or two major cities of Japan polluting those two cities til the end of time. Those in charge that implemented that wonton destruction were white Americans who many of you people of Asia love so much!
But there are many people in Japan, that do not know or care about their ancient history, just as much as there are white and black americans that don't know jack about there history. It doesn't mean that because you or another Japanese historian has not heard of it, that it is not true. Here ya go Fujiwara. Read this article. And if you have already read it, read it again. For it contains several sources and a Japanese one that points the the Black presence in Early Japan. Follow those sources. They are not ALL black scholars.
Hello And thanks for this feedback. However do a google search on the great Oba Nobunaga's retainer "Yasuke" - Oba Nobunaga's retainer. "Yasuke" was appointed to retainer samurai status by Oda. And its documented in Japanese annals, (not black American) that Yasuke was a black African from Africa brought to Japan by the Jesuits. Oda truly liked him a lot. And he fought along side Oda. Just google it out.
Hello I am African American a looong time practitioner of the martial arts and have the utmost respect for Japanese culture. I hold a Nidan (2nd degree Black Belt in the Art of Shotokan) But let me make a correction here.
Samurai does not mean "black headed one". The word Samurai means to be of service. We as black people have to be careful in what we claim and ensure we get the facts checked and correct.
"Oral History" which goes back more than 150 years is generally highly suspect. Making claims for reliable "oral history" going back to 800 CE is generally poppycock. This is even more so for someone who was a fairly minor figure in a highly literate culture. The office of Sei-i-tai-shōgun was not particularly prestigious until centuries later. Even if 黒 were to appear somewhere in ancient texts, you still have to be careful about concluding that it had much to do with skin color. Then, as I mentioned earlier, you still have to wrestle with non-African areas where people have significantly dark skin pigmentation.
If you are interested in non-pigmentation makers. There is a tight curly hair gene in the Japanese population. But, there is no good way to know when it arrived. Due to the practice of cremation for much of Japanese history, we do not have a lot of skulls to analyze. That is one of the favorite techniques for analyzing past populations.
As for 侍 samurai it is derived from a verb meaning "to serve". We learned in Classical Japanese that this verb was in early times applied to female retainers in the imperial court.
As for 征夷大将軍 Sei-i-tai-shōgun. It was a middle level office in the imperial government which most people did not want. There was a better military office available which was commander of the imperial army. Worse still, the shōgun might be expected to absent themselves from the capital for extended periods of time.
As for Africa itself. Paleontologists currently believe that all of us are descended from Africans as all of humanity is supposed to be descended from a very small area in Africa. Different skin pigmentations are believed to have evolved in response to comparative difficulty for producing vitamin D from sunlight.
Did black sub-Saharan Africans make it to Japan before 1601? Absolutely yes. We have lots of evidence for that. Could such people have made it to Japan during the Nara Period? There is a good chance that some did. They imported a Buddhist priest from India to "open the eye" of the giant Buddha statue at Tōdaiji. All you have to do is hop a ride from East Africa to India to open the possibility. And, we have good reason to believe that a trade route existed. However, possibility is not certainty.
Last Edit: Mar 16, 2017 14:41:02 GMT -5 by solveig
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