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Post by Yamauchi Sanosuke on Mar 19, 2008 13:11:24 GMT -5
I recently committed a faux pas, wearing my daisho in court. Antir has a "no blades at court" protocol, but I am loath to leave my swords lying about unattended.
How do you handle this in your reenactment?
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 19, 2008 13:47:02 GMT -5
If called into court, I know a number of people who will rise, remove their weapons, hand them to a trusted friend for safekeeping, and then approach the Royal Presence. If you do it with panache, it can be very cool.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 19, 2008 14:01:39 GMT -5
Around here, folks like to store/transport their swords (both rattan and steel) in those cases that you put golf club bags in... because some have name plates and most of them lock.
Just lock 'em in there prior to court.
- Imagawa
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Post by Water_Tengu on Mar 19, 2008 15:16:04 GMT -5
personally i carry my wakizashi and two tanto to court, sit, and when called pass them to my nihonjin friend, he puts them in the concealed sheaths on his body and go go to the prescence. i thus do the same for him (except he only has a katana on him.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 19, 2008 16:18:40 GMT -5
I recently committed a faux pas, wearing my daisho in court. Antir has a "no blades at court" protocol, but I am loath to leave my swords lying about unattended. How do you handle this in your reenactment? Funny, no one in AnTir has ever complained about mine, granted I live in Atlantia and only visit AnTir, so maybe they just figure I do not know any better and leave me alone about it. Regardless, I am of slightly mixed frame of mind on it... I usualy solve this dilemma by ignoring what others expect in the matter and do what I learned is appropriate to my persona, unless there is a legal/insurance reason for not being armed. Caviat: If I am participating in someone else's award/honor, I find out what they expect of me and follow it. If I am getting the kudos, I want the process pleasing to me, if it is someone else I want it pleasing to them. So when called into court I approach wearing appropriate arms for my manner of dress. If I am wearing a daisho, when I approach I remove the daito from my belt and carry it reversed in my right hand, when I kneel and bow, it is placed next to me on the right and stays with me. My shoto remains in my belt. Only one has someone commented negatively about it, only to be intturupted by the King who wanted to learn about the sword ettiquite, he thought it was spiff. If I am wearing a tachi, and am called before the court, it stays where it is... I'm not untying it, sorry. Also there is a question of were you wearing it in/during court, or were you called to appear before their Magesity/ies? Wearing it during court (watching) is not a problem anywhere. (unless there is a legal/insurance requirement for the site) Also if you are called before the court, where the heck were the guards/bailif/seargant at arms? If it is a big issue within a Kingdom, there should have been someone (guard) present to "assist" you in compliance... Well that is the historical model, so it is others who need to get with the program. I know for one, I am certainly going to use guards in my court... If for no other reason than looking spiff, it is a nice touch... having people escorted, assisting them with their presentations, fetching a chair, or even lending an arm for those who need it, going and grabbing the kitchen staff (who always seem to be in the kitchen when they are called for an award) And also as a way to help new people have a friendly person to point things out and guide them the first time they are called into court. For some it can realy get ya frazzled... I remember my first time called into court, my heart was racing and I was nearly in la-la-land trying to take it all in. It was realy cool! -Takeda
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 19, 2008 17:36:21 GMT -5
I remember my first time called into court, my heart was racing and I was nearly in la-la-land trying to take it all in. It was realy cool! I thought I was soooo composed. I got up, climbed down the bleachers in a full length skirt without killing myself, walked down the aisle, swept a curtsey, mounted the dais, knelt, opened my mouth to say, "Your Majesties summoned me?" - and no sound came out.
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erink
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Post by erink on Mar 19, 2008 18:18:13 GMT -5
I have no clue where I read this recently (i.e. maybe here) but I just read something about sword etiquette in Japanese court situations.
When being received by a trusted superior, you're supposed to remove your sword and place it along your zabuton at your right side. The right side is supposed to make it harder to draw than if you'd placed it on your left side.
There was also something about how to hand your sword to someone in the situation where you must go unarmed. One of you uses two hands so she could draw the sword if she wanted; the other person uses one hand so he can't. But I don't remember which is which. I think the recipient used one hand, which seemed wrong to me because it's usually important to show respect by receiving an item with two hands in Japanese.
I don't know how this matches to short swords or any other lethal accessories.
And of course, it's possibly Edo....
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 19, 2008 20:08:17 GMT -5
I recently committed a faux pas, wearing my daisho in court. Antir has a "no blades at court" protocol, but I am loath to leave my swords lying about unattended. How do you handle this in your reenactment? There are plenty of Edo period sources (haven't found/noticed pre-Edo) where you take your sword off if you are sitting down, anyway, and put it on your right side (blade in or out--not sure that part matters except school by school). You would presumably carry it in your right hand, as well. A wakizashi I don't believe you would remove unless specifically asked. If you are going to hand a sword to someone, etiquette may very depending on the school of thought, but here is what I was taught and it makes sense to me: Cushion the sword with both hands (it is rude to use one hand or hands over the top of the item unless giving it to an inferior). Keep the blade towards you and control the tsuba with your left hand (ostensibly you are showing them you are not going to try to draw it). Keep the tsuka raised slightly and hand it to the other person, who can control the tsuba with their right hand. A short bow often accompanies the giving (nothing elaborate). All this indicates a level of trust between you and the individual. What do you do if you don't trust them? Don't give them your sword! I'm not saying it is period, but it seems sensible. And it isn't as hard or involved as it sounds. Oh, and receive the sword underneath with two hands as well. -Ii
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Post by solveig on Mar 19, 2008 23:00:03 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I thought I was soooo composed. I got up, climbed down the bleachers in a full length skirt without killing myself, walked down the aisle, swept a curtsey, mounted the dais, knelt, opened my mouth to say, "Your Majesties summoned me?" - and no sound came out. I'm impressed. I have yet to be composed when called into court.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 19, 2008 23:08:41 GMT -5
I got up, climbed down the bleachers in a full length skirt without killing myself, walked down the aisle, swept a curtsey, mounted the dais, knelt, opened my mouth to say, "Your Majesties summoned me?" - and no sound came out. I'm impressed. I have yet to be composed when called into court. Do go back and read the last five words of what I wrote. I must not have looked good at all because Her Majesty Caitlin looked quite alarmed, then chirped, "Hershey kiss?" and thrust one at me.
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Post by Water_Tengu on Mar 19, 2008 23:11:51 GMT -5
Saionji, i just noticed the new addition to your icon, i love it.
And to the topic of this thread, i am a member of the baronial guard for the Barony of Shattered Crystal, when i am standing to the sides of the throne, and i am called into the prescence, how do i handle the polearm (in my case a naginata) we are required to carry
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Post by Kitabatake Genjiro Katsunari on Mar 20, 2008 7:34:32 GMT -5
I know when antir guards get called into court someone takes their place and holds their weapon of choice.
Yamauchi-dono where in antir are you. I'm from Lionsdale. The sword think seems to change with every reign. some kings are okay with it others are not. I just hand my sword(if I'm wearing it) to one of my trusted friends.
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Post by Yasaki Tadahira on Mar 20, 2008 9:29:21 GMT -5
i tried to write it myself, but ill just quote. "When handing over a sword, the superior person will use one hand, the inferior both. The blade is always properly oriented (i.e.; for a tachi, edge down; for a katana, edge up). A superior person grasps the sword palm down on the scabbard, near the middle, and hands it over horizontally; the recipient receives it in both open palms, one at the hilt and one near the foot. If an inferior hands one over, it is palms up, under the hilt and foot; the recipient grasps it, palm down, at the center-point. This is similar for all weapons, as well, be they firearms, spears, or blades." and "When sitting or kneeling indoors — especially as a guest — one should remove the sword from his sash and place it along his right side, edge in. This makes the sword inconvenient to get to and draw, and shows the proper respect. A great way to deliver a not-so-subtle insult (”I don’t trust you; I could kill you, you know.”) is to remove the sword from your obi but lie it on the floor on your left side, edge out. This is positioned for an easy draw. The key to a respectful attitude with swords is to indicate that it would be difficult to draw, cut, or otherwise defend oneself, while the other person would find it easy to attack." from www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/miscellany.htmlunder etiquette. i know by heart, just couldent write it withought an hour of retyping my poor spelling. Sorry if i overstepped effingham-sensi
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erink
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Post by erink on Mar 20, 2008 12:07:25 GMT -5
Ah, that was where I read it!
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Lash
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Post by Lash on Mar 31, 2008 9:16:12 GMT -5
It sounds to me like I need to attend the courts that you attend. I have had very bad luck at the three court events that I went to. 3 different kingdoms , 3 different events and 3 different instances of disrespect . I dont talk bad about people or places so I wont be saying where or who but in all 3 I was publicly remonstrated for wearing my soul to court as a bystander. Not whispered to and respectfully asked to remove it but loud and condescendingly like I was a child who needed punishment. What I thought odd is that as you can see by my earlier pictures I am new to the garb part of the SCA as I always just tried to get by so I could fight . So knowing that they would realize I am new to the court thing also? What they did not notice either was that my soul was corded closed with the white braid of peace . It is something my house does to show honor to someone by binding your sword closed showing that you respect their home eneough that you know you will not need your sword. The closest thing to a favorable instance with royalty was being invited to war council by the general of the addenvelt army at estrella 08 along with the to-chuck commander. We were the mercenary field commanders. They didnt notice or care that I had my soul . It does color my opinion of court and I did not attend anything at Estrella for that reason . So maybe I should make a Pilgrimage to your kingdoms to see how court is supposed to be?
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