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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 17, 2008 10:22:37 GMT -5
It pleases me greatly to know that this recipe is going over well...  I never thought that it would become the center of such an academic debate though (as I posted it purely because it's tasty and gave absolutely no thought to its historic/academic value). Seems to have worked out all right for most folks, though. Sei Shonagon disapproves. If anyone needs me, I'll be eating my sunomono over rice with the carpenters... Hehehehehehe... gomen nasai, Solveig-hime... had to do it...  - Imagawa |
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Post by solveig on Mar 17, 2008 11:11:03 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! anyone needs me, I'll be eating my sunomono over rice with the carpenters... Hehehehehehe... gomen nasai, Solveig-hime... had to do it... You misread my earlier posting. The carpenters DID NOT dump their vegetables over their rice. They ate it separately. Sei Shonagon was griping about how they gulped their food instead of picking at it pretending not to be hungry. |
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 17, 2008 14:26:46 GMT -5
From 大辞林 Daijirin we have『酢の物 (sunomono) 魚肉・貝・野菜・海藻などを加減酢で和えた料理。なます。』 What this means is that sunomono is an uncooked dish of sliced items such as fish, shell fish, vegetables, or seaweed seasoned with vinegar. Please note, I'm not trying to correct you Solvieg, but for those of who didn't follow her very percise explanation... Sunomono (Su-no-mono) is Mono "a thing" (in this usage food) perpared No "with/in/of" Su "vinegar". The amount of vinegar it is in is dictated by the foods, the preperation thereof, the timeperiod, and locality. Here are some of the basic "mono", these are akin to western food terms of baked, boiled, simmered, chopped, BBQ, roasted, pickled, etc. Agemono = deep fried in oil Itamemono = stir-fried Mushimono = steamed Nabemono = Cooked together in a Donabe (crockery pot) Suimono = Soup/Broth Tsukemono = Pickled Yakimono = Grilled or pan fried (little or no oil, high heat) -Takeda |
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 17, 2008 14:33:28 GMT -5
You misread my earlier posting. The carpenters DID NOT dump their vegetables over their rice. They ate it separately. Sei Shonagon was griping about how they gulped their food instead of picking at it pretending not to be hungry. Nope. I didn't mis-read it. I combined the fact that *I* like dumping my veggies on my rice with *your* statement regarding the carpenters. Makes me one of those pesky uncouth nihonjin, I suppose. LOL. - Imagawa |
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Post by solveig on Mar 17, 2008 16:59:55 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Agemono = deep fried in oil Itamemono = stir-fried Mushimono = steamed Nabemono = Cooked together in a Donabe (crockery pot) Suimono = Soup/Broth Tsukemono = Pickled Yakimono = Grilled or pan fried (little or no oil, high heat) Sounds about right to me. |
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Post by solveig on Mar 17, 2008 17:12:16 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig!
Sadly, I do not recall ever seeing this done in Japan. Some things are "dumped" on top of rice. These include raw eggs, various "donburi", "--don" dishes, various ochazuke dishes, the use of furikake, &c. However, I do not recall seeing "okazu" being dumped on top of rice by anyone. "Cha han" (fried rice) is quite popular, but it is pretty much confined to "Chinese" restaurants in Japan. Incidentally, "curry rice" is served in Japan with the rice and curry in the same dish, but still separate. Japanese eat "curry rice" with a spoon while Indians eat it with their hands. Basically, you are more in danger of not recreating Japan period! The carpenters were simply hungry and acting in a fairly ordinary way. The reason I brought them up is because they were workmen, but they were not doing as you like doing.
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erink
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Post by erink on Mar 18, 2008 10:14:38 GMT -5
Mmm, sunomono. I typically cut the sugar substantially for personal preference myself. I think it would keep better without the sugar too; my understanding is that you can only keep these a week or so. I like them after a day or two when the cucumbers are thoroughly wilted. My beau has been making Japanese food recently and I am pretty excited about the prospect of having fresh pickles all summer. This also solves our problem of what to do with that cabbage (or whatever) we got in our farm share a few weeks ago that we didn't use and now it's all flabby. I'm probably going to work up a pickle maker pretty soon out of some nesting plastic take-out containers.... Solveig-sensei, did I understand you to say that this type of homemade pickles are likely period? Are certain types more authentic than others? What else should we be eating as day-to-day grazing food? Gotta remember to leave time to make camp food for Pennsic this year. I've had moderate success with rice balls (onigiri or musubi, I don't know the difference) and this year with our expanded pantry I'll have more exciting stuff to put inside them! Here's an example of what my fella' has been cooking. He rocks. |
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 18, 2008 10:37:42 GMT -5
What else should we be eating as day-to-day grazing food? Did you look at the tsukemono recipes I posted at the same time I originally wrote this post? - Imagawa |
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erink
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Post by erink on Mar 18, 2008 11:31:30 GMT -5
I did see the tsukemono recipes just after I posted that. Looks interesting! I don't think we've tried any that involved cooking (with heat) so far.
By the way, I am not claiming that any of my beau's food is period. Just that it was yummy.
My favorite Japanese food word is shioyaki, which I think means something like "salt-grilled." Pretty much always translates to delicious in my personal dictionary.
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Post by solveig on Mar 18, 2008 15:13:38 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Solveig-sensei, did I understand you to say that this type of homemade pickles are likely period? Are certain types more authentic than others? Pickles are pretty much de'rigeur (sp) in both Japanese and Korean cuisine. In a chaji and temple cuisine, the pickles act as the "desert" in the sense that they are the last thing eaten. The two categories of "grazing" food identifiable are: 1) お菓子 okashi (originally fruit and nuts) 2) 肴 sakana (small nibblies to be eaten with booze) This category includes such things as dried fish. Japanese pickles come in quite a few varieties. Things can be pickled in: salt, vinegar, sake lees, 焼酎 (shôchû), soy sauce, mirin, miso, sometimes sugar is added. Here are a couple of introductory books which you might find interesting: How to Nukazuke ISBN: 978-4-88340-063-8 How to Asazuke ISBN: 4-88340-039-5 Both of the above are illustrated how-to books written in Japanese. If you wish to go more hard-core, you may find the following interesting: Encyclopedia of Pickles ISBN: 4-259-56113-8 Also in Japanese. What else? |
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Post by Henmei on Mar 18, 2008 22:50:26 GMT -5
Ok, i made this for my family, and it was absolutely amazing. I agree with henmei, i measured the two by volume, and it was much better with more cucumber. I took the 50/50 advice henmei posted, and it was just SO good! Glad it was helpful; I hope you also took Solveig's advice (slice, don't dice). Even if you don't put a lot of effort into arranging the plate, slices ( wah-ferr theen, M'sieur) expose more surface area to the salting and marinating processes. Wakame and cucumber would also be good prepared this way. |
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Post by Water_Tengu on Mar 18, 2008 23:02:03 GMT -5
Ok, i made this for my family, and it was absolutely amazing. I agree with henmei, i measured the two by volume, and it was much better with more cucumber. I took the 50/50 advice henmei posted, and it was just SO good! Glad it was helpful; I hope you also took Solveig's advice (slice, don't dice). Even if you don't put a lot of effort into arranging the plate, slices ( wah-ferr theen, M'sieur) expose more surface area to the salting and marinating processes. Wakame and cucumber would also be good prepared this way. i don't know why, but i did not notice solveig saying that. i did it that way anyway, because diced pieces are not easily picked up with chopsticks, and not as appreciated by a western audience |
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Post by solveig on Mar 19, 2008 10:08:48 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! i don't know why, but i did not notice solveig saying that. i did it that way anyway, because diced pieces are not easily picked up with chopsticks, and not as appreciated by a western audience The visual aspect of Japanese food has been important for rather a long time. It is clearly present in『酒飯論』(this is a picture scroll depicting cooking, eating, and drinking) and is at least alluded to in the Confessions of Lady Nijo. As I recall, we also have illustrations of slicing and arranging showing up in ZGR 19 下. Also, there appear to be physical food design elements in『斉民要術』which is the earliest Chinese cookbook and predates the T'ang dynasty. |
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Post by Water_Tengu on Mar 19, 2008 11:09:23 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! i don't know why, but i did not notice solveig saying that. i did it that way anyway, because diced pieces are not easily picked up with chopsticks, and not as appreciated by a western audience The visual aspect of Japanese food has been important for rather a long time. It is clearly present in『酒飯論』(this is a picture scroll depicting cooking, eating, and drinking) and is at least alluded to in the Confessions of Lady Nijo. As I recall, we also have illustrations of slicing and arranging showing up in ZGR 19 下. Also, there appear to be physical food design elements in『斉民要術』which is the earliest Chinese cookbook and predates the T'ang dynasty. oh, i realize as much. i just was not worrying about that at the time. |
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