|
Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 11, 2008 13:18:52 GMT -5
Enjoy! - Imagawa ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sunomono (Cucumber and Daikon Salad) INGREDIENTS: 1 small daikon radish 1 small cucumber 5 tbsp rice vinegar 2 tbsp sugar 1 tsp salt PREPARATION: Peel daikon radish and slice it into thin slices. Slice the cucumber to the same thickness. Salt the cucumber and daikon slices and wait about 5-10 mins. Wash off the daikon and cucumber slices and drain the water through a strainer. Mix the vinegar and sugar in a cup. Pour the vinegar mixture over the cucumber and daikon slices. Set aside at least 15 min. before serving.
|
|
|
Post by Henmei on Mar 11, 2008 17:04:46 GMT -5
Small daikon--a bilingual oxymoron. What is small for a daikon would be many times the size of a small cuke. You probably want the daikon/cucumber mix to be about 50/50 by weight or volume.
|
|
|
Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 11, 2008 17:14:30 GMT -5
I just copied and pasted the recipe. I didn't write it. But I agree. I'd want a 50/50 mix... it would taste a lot better I'd think. - Imagawa
|
|
|
Post by solveig on Mar 11, 2008 23:03:03 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Sunomono (Cucumber and Daikon Salad) INGREDIENTS: 1 small daikon radish 1 small cucumber 5 tbsp rice vinegar 2 tbsp sugar 1 tsp salt While this is a fine modern recipe, I do not recommend it for pre-modern recreation purposes. One problem is the use of sugar. While sugar was used for a variety of purposes in Japan prior to 1600, actual domestic sugar production didn't really get going until (if I recall correctly) the 17th century. There are a number of sugar alternatives which might conceivably have been used including mizuame.
|
|
|
Post by takadainotora on Mar 12, 2008 0:04:18 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! While this is a fine modern recipe, I do not recommend it for pre-modern recreation purposes. One problem is the use of sugar. While sugar was used for a variety of purposes in Japan prior to 1600, actual domestic sugar production didn't really get going until (if I recall correctly) the 17th century. There are a number of sugar alternatives which might conceivably have been used including mizuame. Given access to Asian supermarkets, what would be the most available "sugar alternative"? What would have been the most widely used in the 15th and 16th centuries?
|
|
|
Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Mar 12, 2008 4:24:22 GMT -5
While this is a fine modern recipe, I do not recommend it for pre-modern recreation purposes. One problem is the use of sugar. While sugar was used for a variety of purposes in Japan prior to 1600, actual domestic sugar production didn't really get going until (if I recall correctly) the 17th century. There are a number of sugar alternatives which might conceivably have been used including mizuame. I did not necessarily mean it for pre-modern recreation purposes, although it would make a fairly "bulletproof" recipe for personal munchies at an event. Throw some in a bowl with rice and you have a quick tasty snack that passes the 10 ft rule. I saw the recipe this morning, said "Hmmm... that sounds tasty... I bet the Tousando crowd would like it" and I posted it. My logic was that I had not seen any recipes posted in here for a very long time (to my recollection) and I thought it would go over well. You have now aroused my curiosity, and since I like to cook and exploring period cooking is on my SCA "to-do" list, I must ask: you stated that *one* of the issues with this involved the use of sugar. What else is wrong with this recipe? Also, would you consider corn syrup or barley malt syrup to be a good substitute for mizuame, since they are made by very similar means? - Imagawa
|
|
|
Post by solveig on Mar 12, 2008 11:36:31 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I did not necessarily mean it for pre-modern recreation purposes, although it would make a fairly "bulletproof" recipe for personal munchies at an event. Throw some in a bowl with rice and you have a quick tasty snack that passes the 10 ft rule. I'm sorry, but what you are proposing above doesn't pass my 20 ft rule, let alone a 10 ft rule. Read Sei Shonagon's gripes about how carpenters eat. While I am not claiming that adding mizuame is necessarily documentable, it is a better attempt than refined sucrose. You can purchase mizuame at Japanese grocers in the United States. I recently purchased the stuff in Rochester, NY where it comes in two grades. Basically, the stuff is malted rice and barley. The stuff with a higher percentage of rice is more expensive. There are of course other sweeteners available in pre-modern Japan including honey and the sap of the Boston Ivy to name two. Finally, while you can now find salads in Japan, salads are pretty much a Western concept. Premodern Japanese were pretty much into pickled vegetables.
|
|
|
Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Mar 12, 2008 13:22:20 GMT -5
Finally, while you can now find salads in Japan, salads are pretty much a Western concept. Pre-modern Japanese were pretty much into pickled vegetables. Dunno, looking from the recipe, if you used the malted barley sweetener and let is sit around long enough, it would be pickled! It just looks to be a matter of how soon you eat it after preparing it ;D -Takeda
|
|
|
Post by inume on Mar 12, 2008 20:53:17 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! I'm sorry, but what you are proposing above doesn't pass my 20 ft rule, let alone a 10 ft rule. Read Sei Shonagon's gripes about how carpenters eat. Solveig-sensei, I very much appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to always share your education with us, but don't you think you are being a bit harsh? It's veggies chopped up with vinegar after all. I would think that most folks at events (including myself) with even a passing knowledge of Japanese cuisine - beyond sushi - would say, "Oh! Pickled veggies! That's nice that you brought something Japanese rather then the usual 'cheese and bread affair' that the Europeans bring. May I try some?" There is a fine line between correction and discouragement from suggesting future ideas.
|
|
|
Post by solveig on Mar 12, 2008 23:15:45 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Solveig-sensei, I very much appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to always share your education with us, but don't you think you are being a bit harsh? It's veggies chopped up with vinegar after all. I would think that most folks at events (including myself) with even a passing knowledge of Japanese cuisine - beyond sushi - would say, "Oh! Pickled veggies! That's nice that you brought something Japanese rather then the usual 'cheese and bread affair' that the Europeans bring. May I try some?" There is a fine line between correction and discouragement from suggesting future ideas. I'm not trying to discourage you. However, there are several problems. "Chopped up" is not a particularly good approach to recreating Japanese food. Slicing and arrangement have been considered an important aspect of "taste" in Japan for hundreds of years. I can provide references if you wish them. The second problem was the business about dumping the veggies on the rice and shoveling it in. Even the carpenters that Sei Shonagon griped about didn't behave this way. Incidentally, 酢の物 (su no mono) literally "vinegarred things" is distinct from 漬け物 (tsukemono) which are pickles of any of various types. Finally, I do not have any particular objection to sliced cucumbers and daikon. However, it not "salad" and neither should it be dumped on top of rice. The recipe itself does have problems which I have already mentioned. Today, a lot of Japanese recipes do contain sugar, but crystalline sucrose was supposably imported from the mainland up until the 17th century. As a recipe which I have for chestnut sweets uses sucrose, I have to justify its use within the social context of the items being made.
|
|
|
Post by takadainotora on Mar 16, 2008 0:44:57 GMT -5
It looks like mizuame isn't a possibility for me as I'm allergic to most forms of barley, so what are alternatives pre-modern sweeteners? I can get honey, in fact I have a honey company fairly close so I can get different varieties of honey, but what else?
|
|
|
Post by solveig on Mar 16, 2008 20:46:28 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It looks like mizuame isn't a possibility for me as I'm allergic to most forms of barley, so what are alternatives pre-modern sweeteners? I can get honey, in fact I have a honey company fairly close so I can get different varieties of honey, but what else? It's easy to make an argument for both the sap of the Boston Ivy and for Honey.
|
|
|
Post by Water_Tengu on Mar 16, 2008 21:29:40 GMT -5
Ok, i made this for my family, and it was absolutely amazing. I agree with henmei, i measured the two by volume, and it was much better with more cucumber. I took the 50/50 advice henmei posted, and it was just SO good!
|
|
|
Post by Kitabatake Genjiro Katsunari on Mar 17, 2008 7:44:37 GMT -5
Weird this recipe sounds totally different then any sunamono I've ever had. When I usually order it, it is usually floating in a vinegar sugar mixture with clear noodles and prawns. infact I had it with dinner last night. I guess the name Sunamono actually just refers to the vinagered vegtables, am I correct?
|
|
|
Post by solveig on Mar 17, 2008 9:54:50 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Weird this recipe sounds totally different then any sunamono I've ever had. When I usually order it, it is usually floating in a vinegar sugar mixture with clear noodles and prawns. infact I had it with dinner last night. I guess the name Sunamono actually just refers to the vinagered vegtables, am I correct? From 大辞林 Daijirin we have『酢の物 (sunomono) 魚肉・貝・野菜・海藻などを加減酢で和えた料理。なます。』 What this means is that sunomono is an uncooked dish of sliced items such as fish, shell fish, vegetables, or seaweed seasoned with vinegar.
|
|