Feeling "out of place"?

[Hiroyuki]

While reading an article on AA( "A Mycenean In The SCA" to be clear...) I saw individuals referring to different instances where they would either "change" persona or not attend certain tourneys, events, etc... because their non european persona wouldn't "appear" right...

As the Japanese personas much of you use are definitely not european, do you guys change or choose not to attend events because your persona doesn't fit?

sorry just looking for other opinions on this, not trying to start the riot...(though everyone needs a riot of their own

[Saionji Shonagon]

Konbanwa, Musashi-dono,

Lady Jehanne de Wodeford is my primary persona. She's the one with the registered name and device (which is why I so far only go by a nickname when being Japanese). She has been around considerably longer, does different activities in the SCA than Makiwara does, and in a kingdom with a very long camping season, is generally better adapted to "bedding down in the wastes like a bushi."

Makiwara's earliest incarnation was a rudimentary Kamakura ensemble thrown together so I could attend a Japanese themed event back east witih my now ex's squire. She went back into the closet until my first West Kingdom Twelfth Night two years ago when I had great fun rendering myself unrecognizable to "Jehanne's" friends and sailing around in informal Heian. Nothing warms the heart like walking up to three Peers of the Realm and saying, "So, you don't say hello anymore?" and have them shriek in unison "Holy s--t!" ;->

Being a kuge girly girl (and believe me, Makiwara is considerably more girly than Jehanne) meant, for a long time, only going to to indoor events like Twelfth Night and principality Investitures where the only peril was that the gaijin might step on her hems.

Last spring, after timeline surfing to Momoyama-style clothes that were a bit more field friendly, Makiwara daytripped her first outdoor event, split time with Jehanne at yet another, taught a class at a kingdom collegium and even did one whole day at Estrella last week. Showing up to sing madrigals with the Known World Choir in kosode and mushi no tareginu was interesting, though it was no more anachronistic than hailing Otagiri's camp in Japanese and bowing while dressed in a cotehardie. ;->

Basically, I decide who gets to attend an event based on a number of factors, which can include weather forecast, how ambitious I'm feeling, what sort of activities I think I'll be participating in, and so forth. I live in a kingdom where Japanese has recently been equated with "fringie", but Makiwara doesn't play on the fringes. Society corpora refers to us as "guests." I behave like one when I am Makiwara and socialize with my hosts as a polite guest should. As a result, I rarely feel like I'm being "left out." And more and more, people are learning to wrap their mouths around the harder name and use it when they see me in Japanese. More and more, when they see me in Europeans, they may ask how "my Japanese friend" is.

"Multiple Persona Disorder" should be fun. That's the only reason I do it, not because I feel socially pressured to. You're only out of place if you let them make you feel like you're out of place.

M.

[Date Saburou Yukiie]

Musashi-dono,
I have always had a Japanese Persona, from the day I started playing, hopefully, to the day I stop.
This does not mean I might not develope a M.P.D. (Multiple Persona Disorder) as there are some very cool persona wanting to be tried on...

As far as deciding to go or not to go to an event because it is a "Roman Bachernalia" (yum) or a "Helenistic Fete" or a Carpathian Grog Swilling fest" or whatever, especially if it is an attempt at making an event with a unified look...there is no question...

If I feel like going, then I go.
If the food sounds tasty, then I go.
If I feel like fighting...then I go.

The only tourneys I have avoided, are ones where they have a particularly silly fighting thing going on that is not to my tastes - like pas'd' arms.
I find the pas'd' arms to be such a pointles exercise - especially for a japanese persona, that I don't fight them.
If there is something as frustrating as a "weapon and shield only" tournament (believe me - I have seen them...) then I go, just for the pas'd'arms and stand there - in full (Japanese) armor with my katana or my spear or what have you - at the edge of the Eric...waiting to be invited to play.
One of two things happen - either you get asked to play, or you stand there the whole time, and people come up to you and say - "Man...I sure wish those folks let you play! you look great!"
:-)

I always go in Japanese Garb, as I have the Japanese Persona I have honed and whittled into shape...
I never mind telling people why I wear the clothing and armor I have chosen...

If in the fighting lists we are all "assumed" to be wearing a certain type of "Euro Armor", with a certain type of "Euro Helm" and "Euro Undies" - regardless of the actual armor worn...

I apply this thought concept to the clothing world and things suddenly make sence in an event that is Bla Bla Bla-centric.

go to tourneys and events proud of your research and the things you bring to the group...don't let anyone tell you you are wrong for wanting to do something different.
Be the best persona you can be - what-ever it is.

Two zeni -worth from Date Saburou Yukiie
Yama Kaminari Ryu

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

Both Makiwara and Date-dono could not have said it better. Enjoy the game.

Personally, the only time I ask if my attendance as a Japanese persona is wanted/appropriate is for demos.

So far I've always been encouraged to attend, even demos that are highly focused on European topics, at the very least to demosntrate the influence of Europe on the world, and the greater world's influence on Europe.

[Otagiri Tatsuzou]

As the Japanese personas much of you use are definitely not european, do you guys change or choose not to attend events because your persona doesn't fit?

In April, I will be fighting a challenge, under my Lady's banner, at a barrier, with a single sword, until such a time as both my opponent and myself have received the same number of blows as the number of ladies present.

I wish my 1320's German-Bohemian armor were ready by that time so that I could fight the challenge as Odagar von Eger. Challenges in the name of Love are so not Japanese.

I have avoided feasts. This is mostly a personal dislike for congregating with strangers and awkwardness among casual acquaintances ... but I have allowed the cultural differences between my Japanese persona and the Occidentals to become an additional excuse to avoid feasts.

So, yeah, there can be issues.

[Saionji Shonagon]

Date said:

As far as deciding to go or not to go to an event because it is a "Roman Bachernalia" (yum)

What, you mean a toga party? [Hrumph.] BOYS! ;->

Date said:

go to tourneys and events proud of your research and the things you bring to the group...don't let anyone tell you you are wrong for wanting to do something different.
Be the best persona you can be - what-ever it is.

Well said, honored Friend!

Don't be afraid to have a fun with your "foreigner" status either. At that first Twelfth Night, I sat two courts on the floor, feigning horror when people kept trying to get me into a chair. How horrible! "All that beautiful clothing you people wear being crushed and hidden by those awful chair things instead of being properly spread out behind one on the floor so one can admire the effect!" And of course, letting slip the occasional flash of black teeth from behind the fan was extra special. [Note to self, must find theatrical supplier and research better products. The current stuff is a P.I.T.A.]

Last March Crown, the personal champions of the queen and our three principality princesses issued a challenge to fight all comers and I (as Makiwara) was given the duty of recording the challengers' names, which champion(s) they fought and giving out little tokens. I did so from my seat on the grass, forcing everyone to kneel to speak to me and receive their tokens. I made a big deal about not knowing who any of them were, as if meeting them all for the first time. They were all pretty good about playing along.

M.

[Saiaiko]

Good morning,

I have been active in the SCA for about three years, and have had mostly positive experiences regarding having a Japanese persona in a Euro-centric organization. I have never felt the need to have more than one persona, because frankly there is no where I feel more at home than in the one I have. Besides, I have many Euro friends that enjoy coaxing me into European garb for the evening. My persona doesn't change, it's just an occasion of cultural exchange.

Within my Japanese persona, I allow my self a little freedom to move loosely among a couple of classes. When I am in military-mode, I dress accordingly, don't bother to hide my teeth, and often scream like an oni right before I make my kill. When I am in courtier (respectful daughter) mode, everything changes again. This mobility allows me to express different aspects of my personality, and gives me the opportunity to make a lot of cool stuff whether it be practical or foo-foo.

The only time I feel a little less than welcome is in my own barony. I go, with my Daimyo and a couple of his squires, to the weekly heavy weapons practice. I can't tell if the unwillingness to play with us (or cheer loudly for the European when we do spar) is due our "foreigness" or that it is one particular insular household that populates the practice.

Mostly however, I have received nothing but postive attention when my fellow Japanese and I go to events. My different dress and manner often open up opportunities for conversation. My thought is that you can never go wrong being a well-dressed guest. If we follow the interpretation of Corpora, then I will be glad to make my way through the ranks of artisans, soldiers, peasants, and royalty with the manner and appreciation of a tourist, taking a few heads along the way. When I return home to my Clan, there will always be good stories to share of curiosities like "milk" and the practice of women showing their teeth. In many ways, this enhances my experience in the SCA.

Just some thoughts.

[OgamiBusho]

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEE....

(No, that's not right. What word for Japanese people rhymes with 'here'?)

Anyway, GET USED TO IT!


(Hmmmm......
We're present! We're peasants!...
We're Bushi! We got tushies!...
We're dono! That's what we do know!...
We're samurai! We're...

Awwww, crap.)

-Ogami

[Saionji Shonagon]

OgamiBusho said:

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEE....

I've always liked "We're here, we're dear."

OgamiBusho said:

(Hmmmm......
We're present! We're peasants!...
We're Bushi! We got tushies!...
We're dono! That's what we do know!...
We're samurai! We're...

That's what comes of messing with gaijin rhyming poetry, Ogami-sensei.

They try to define
Themselves by rules of a game,
While prating of dreams.
What rule can ever define
Whose dream is more "right" than whose?

Makiwara

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

makiwara said:

I've always liked "We're here, we're dear."

I heard the variant that is popular at Nara... "We're here, we're deer, give us your food!"

-Takeda

[Date Saburou Yukiie]

I heard the variant that is popular at Nara... "We're here, we're deer, give us your food!"

You should see how agressive the Eels in the underwater sanctuary off of the Izu peninsula are...I have been diving there numerous times, and they will come up and eat right off of your hip bag...which can be scary if you did not know they were there...

It is getting to the point where a decent pearl diving girl like m....um...where a decent cross dressin....um - I have heard pearl divers have trouble with this...
;-)

Date

[Matsuura Suetsune]

I use to care about being non-european and trying to split the difference. Fighting with a dinky round shield because the BIG boys don't want anyone (especially some upstart foruneer) playing with fun toys.I finally stopped trying to gain respect because I was being Japanese and just earn it by ....doing. At the Tourny of Ymir I went to the pick-up field to fight because it was a round shield only list. I had more fun and got a better work out that way. I spit in no ones bowl of Japanese grits. Now I don't really care if anyone has a problem. I've been persistant enough that I am accepted for me as who I am. This weekend I'm proto---( however its spelled) to Master Nikulai. My wife has a Welsh persona and we do things together. So what. There is no differance in what we do and what others who are of differnt time periods do. Even Master Eldred is willing to help me make sme japanese inspired armor. At Atlantian 12th night the King and Queen went as Japanese. I had a fellow sword brother (Justice of Calontir) stop me and said "that he was feeling a little out of place." TEXTYou to will be assimulatedTEXT. I just told him to sing this little song "I think I'm going Japanese, I think I'm going Japanese, I really think so....."

[Saionji Shonagon]

Date said:

It is getting to the point where a decent pearl diving girl like m....um...where a decent cross dressin....um - I have heard pearl divers have trouble with this...
;-)

"This has been a broadcast of WTMI. Just when you've heard too much, we give you more!"

M.

[Date Saburou Yukiie]

"This has been a broadcast of WTMI. Just when you've heard too much, we give you more!"

M.

You know I was kidding, right? At least about the pearl diving part! big :-)

I was serious about the eels...
Date

[AJBryant]

I heard the variant that is popular at Nara... "We're here, we're deer, give us your food!"

Okay, time to wipe the Dr. Pepper off the keyboard...

Tony