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Post by Yamanouchi Eidou on Mar 29, 2011 19:16:24 GMT -5
Suggestions for Kingdom name translations. I have styled them as kingdoms because in English they refer to themselves as kingdoms.
Aethelmearc – 森の王国
Kingdom of the Forest. The Royalty of Aethelmearc are styled as “Their Sylvan Majesties.”
Ansteorra – 星の王国
Kingdom of the Stars. Again, from “Their Stellar Majesties”.
An Tir - 黒獅子の王国
Kingdom of the Black Lion. An Tir may mean “A Land”. I’m not sure, but there is a big fat black lion on An Tir’s Arms.
Artemisia – 蓬の王国
Kingdom of Sage (Mugwort). The plant family of Artemisia is the Sage family, including mugwort.
Atenveldt – 日の王国
Kingdom of the Sun.
Atlantia – 大西洋の王国
Kingdom of the Great Western Sea (As from the Atlantic Ocean)
Caid – 三繊月の王国
Kingdom of the Three Crescents. Caid is actually an acronym from its four principal baronies at the time of its founding, therefor eI have opted to use its heraldry as a name basis.
Calontir – 十字の王国 or 小百合の王国
Kingdom of the Cross or Kingdom of the Lilies. Calontir displays a cross of Calatrava upon its arms. Alternately, as they host Lilies War I found this to be a possibility.
Drachenwald – 竜森の王国
Kingdom of the Dragon’s Forest, translated from the German Drachenwald.
Ealdormere – 延齢草の王国 or 北の王国
Kingdom of Trillium or Kingdom of the North. The Trillium is a heavily used symbol of Ealdormere. Alternately, apparently Ealdormereans will often refer to their kingdom as the North.
East – 東の王国
Kingdom of the East
Gleann Abhann – 牡羊の王国
Kingdom of the Ram, as per kingdom heraldry.
Lochac – 光水の王国 or 南十の王国
Kingdom of the Shining Water or Kingdom of the Southern Cross. Etymologists theorize that Marco Polo’s reference to the land of Lochac (A place in Australia) may be linked to the Latin term for shining water. Alternately, the Southern Cross shows up on kingdom heraldry.
Meridies – 南の王国
Kingdom of the South. Apparently Meridies means South.
Midrealm – 中の王国
Kingdom of the Middle.
Northshield – 北盾の王国
Kingdom of the North Pavise (Shield)
Outlands – 外の王国
Outer Kingdom/ Kingdom of the Outside
Trimaris – 三海の王国
Kingdom of the Three Seas
West – 西の王国
Kingdom of the West.
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Post by Noriko on Mar 29, 2011 21:04:59 GMT -5
Awesomesauce!! Ansteorra – 星の王国 Kingdom of the Stars. Again, from “Their Stellar Majesties”. As for Ansteorra, I thought their name was a reference to the "Lone Star State" since it consists of Texas (and Oklahoma). On the other hand the modifier of "single" or "lone" might not translate well and leaves out poor Oklahoma.... |
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Post by Yamanouchi Eidou on Mar 30, 2011 2:53:35 GMT -5
poor Oklahoma indeed
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Post by solveig on Mar 30, 2011 10:13:52 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! Having lived in both An Tir and Æthelmearc I have good reason to believe that you got both "translations" incorrect. I'm also pretty sure that the idea for Ealdormere is mistaken as well. A bunch of these kingdoms have names constructed in antique languages. They actually have meanings which can be rendered in kanji. As I recall, only Caid has a name which really really doesn't work as it was created as an acronym.
Also, I think that a couple of others are excessively literal. For example, Northshield is much more likely to be named as a border region than as a physical shield. So for example 関 might be more appropriate than 盾
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Post by Noriko on Mar 30, 2011 12:29:30 GMT -5
Having lived in both An Tir and Æthelmearc I have good reason to believe that you got both "translations" incorrect. I'm also pretty sure that the idea for Ealdormere is mistaken as well. A bunch of these kingdoms have names constructed in antique languages. They actually have meanings which can be rendered in kanji. *shrug* To be fair, what these names mean aren't easily find-able on their website, if at all. It's still cool though. So, what do An Tir and Aethelmearc mean? |
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Post by Yamanouchi Eidou on Mar 30, 2011 13:11:03 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Having lived in both An Tir and Æthelmearc I have good reason to believe that you got both translations incorrect. I'm also pretty sure that the idea for Ealdormere is mistaken as well. Also, I think that a couple of others are excessively literal. For example, Northshield is much more likely to be named as a border region than as a physical shield. So for example 関 might be more appropriate than 盾 I'm fully willing to accept that these may be mistaken. I work with what information I have. I can very much agree with your suggestion on Northshield and I echo Noriko's question as to what the other kingdoms' names actually mean. As she points out, etymological information on the kingdom names is not readily available in many instances on either the kingdom website or cunnan. Although I would presume that very few people look at kingdom web pages to find that bit of information. Do you have any further suggestions for corrections? Alternately, are there any forum members who live in these various areas who would like to make suggestions? I'm especially wondering about Calontir because I think Kingdom of the Lilies wins the prize for sissiest kingdom name. |
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Post by Yamanouchi Eidou on Mar 30, 2011 13:25:46 GMT -5
On Ansteorra:
独星の王国
Will give us the Single Star Kingdom. The reading could go: dokusei, dokushuu, or hitoriboshi. The typing recognition program seems to most easily recognize dokusei but I don't know if Ansteorra wants to be mistaken as the poison kingdom.
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laurentk
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Post by laurentk on Mar 30, 2011 14:00:24 GMT -5
I echo Noriko's question as to what the other kingdoms' names actually mean. As she points out, etymological information on the kingdom names is not readily available An Tir has an extensive "Culture Wiki" with tons of information. I easily found that An Tir is "Gaelic for 'The Land.'" (http://wiki.antir.sca.org/index.php?title=An_Tir) To be fair, I only knew of this resource, because I've been scouring An Tir's online resources. "The Land" is exceedingly generic, and I might be tempted to go with a heraldic based name as well. |
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Post by Noriko on Mar 30, 2011 14:43:00 GMT -5
I also wonder if for Kingdom of the Outlands, of a different keyword with a similar meaning such as outskirts or frontier might make more sense. Kingdom of the Outside is a bit... Well, that and their map shows them to be actually squished in between a couple other kingdoms.
Of the dictionary suggestions, I like 野外 (yagai- it means outskirts but also fields, open air and... er... suburbs, scratch that last one and it's ok).
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Mar 30, 2011 17:15:46 GMT -5
An Tir has an extensive "Culture Wiki" with tons of information. I easily found that An Tir is "Gaelic for 'The Land.'" (http://wiki.antir.sca.org/index.php?title=An_Tir) (Anyone else replaying that scene from "Firefly" with Wash and the dinosaur toys in their heads?  ) |
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Ishikawa Ayame
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Post by Ishikawa Ayame on Mar 30, 2011 17:22:37 GMT -5
(Anyone else replaying that scene from "Firefly" with Wash and the dinosaur toys in their heads? ) Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! ;D |
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Mar 30, 2011 19:47:06 GMT -5
As for Ansteorra, I thought their name was a reference to the "Lone Star State" since it consists of Texas (and Oklahoma). On the other hand the modifier of "single" or "lone" might not translate well and leaves out poor Oklahoma.... I would go with 独星 -- 独 means single, lone, and solitary. (It also figures in 独山, which is "The Lonely Mountain" in the Japanese translations of the Hobbit.) EDIT: Crap! Beaten like a red-headed stepchild! |
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Post by Suzuki Ken'ichi on Mar 30, 2011 20:38:41 GMT -5
I also wonder if for Kingdom of the Outlands, of a different keyword with a similar meaning such as outskirts or frontier might make more sense. I suspect that it would, given that Outlands was originally a principality of Atenveldt, and was the lands away from the center of population mass. |
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 30, 2011 21:38:27 GMT -5
Giving it some thought...
I would only use oukoku (‰¤‘) when you would use "kingdom" in English.
Regarding Chukoku--it has already been pointed out that there are other "chukoku" out there. You could pronounce it "Naka no kuni" if you wanted, but see below...
When I think of how country names were written in Chinese, it strikes me that "guo/koku" was often omitted.
Yamato = Yamato (‘å˜a)
Silla = Shiragi (V—…)
Gaya or Kara = Kaya (‰¾–ë) or Kara(‰Á—…)
Goryeo = Kouma (‚—í)
Baekje = Kudara/Hyakusai (•SÏ)
Ruuchuu/Liuqiu = Ryukyu (—®‹…)
I want to say that many of those got abbreviated to a single character, if they weren't already, and it wasn't always the first one--I seem to recall that "Ra" was used to refer to Shilla (probably because V—… starts with the character "New", which was likely too common).
It isn't that they were always omitted, but enough that you don't need to use it all the time. Furthermore, "oukoku" appears to be used to describe Ryukyu, at least--though I don't know if that is a post-period usage (I believe they used wang/ou for their ruler, so it would be appropriate).
In Japan, when we see "kuni" it seems to refer to either a state or province, initially, and later used for "country". It seems to equate to the English word "state" (in that it can be ambiguous if the state is a fully sovereign and independent state or not). So while not incorrect, I wouldn't necessarily use it. I would go with "oukoku" usually to describe our kingdoms because that is what they are--they are Western style states ruled by Kings (or at least, that is the fiction). If you are able to take the throne and want to change the official designator for that time, you can do that (and probably take it up with the heralds) for your reign.
Just some rambling thoughts... sorry if they are overly disjointed this morning.
-Ii
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Post by Please Delete on Mar 31, 2011 23:13:42 GMT -5
I was just thinking about "Outlands"--I wonder if something in the same vein as "michinoku" (aka "Mutsu") would be appropriate? There is evidence that the name "Mutsu", which derives from "Michinoku" or "Michi-no-oku", comes from the fact that it was technically outside the Yamato polity, and therefore would be the country "deep" past the end of the road. Although we usually think of "Oku" as referring to something inside (e.g. "Oku-san", referring to someoen else's wife), could it be used here in a similar manner? It would also keep the "O" of outlands and the "O" of oku (even if the sounds are different).
On the other hand, being THE "gaikoku" has its own special shine. Makes everyone there gaikokujin by definition.
-Ii
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