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Post by Volk'abe on Apr 5, 2011 6:54:36 GMT -5
Humbly seeking knowledge.
I find myself at a loss trying to find things on the Japanese and ships.
I mean, I know they used them, and eventually they also used the Junk like the Chinese but I am completely lacking anything more useful than that.
I'm specifically avoiding the pirates despite them being very much in period and seemingly well documented because I was told that being a pirate was worse than being Japanese in the SCA.
But surely the Japanese were a great power in the ocean since they are from an island nation...
Incidentally, the goal is to eventually get to where I could construct one of the smaller vessels and I have a strong interest in the carpentry in Period Japan.
Okabe
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Post by Please Delete on Apr 5, 2011 9:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by arashi on Apr 5, 2011 9:28:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure who told you being a pirate in the SCA is 'worse' than being japanese...there are a huge number of people in the SCA with pirate oriented personas. Some of the people with crowns and such don't particularly care for pirates because they are more like mercenaries and don't tend to bow and 'show proper respect' But other than that, pirates are well established in the SCA.
As far as ships and boats go, most japanese boats I've seen were small fishing vessels, not meant to go far from shore. Most of the longer range ships were of chinese design up until they started having dealings with the portugese and dutch and started copying their designs.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 5, 2011 9:55:40 GMT -5
Some of the objection to pirates in the SCA may have to do with the people who insist on portraying pirates from out of period. The so-called "golden age of piracy" is generally regarded as the mid 17th-to early 18th century.
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Post by Suzuki Ken'ichi on Apr 5, 2011 10:48:01 GMT -5
Most of the objection to pirates I've seen is that they're "not playing our game." As Makiwara stated, they're often portraying post-period versions of pirates, and frankly, many of the people who do it don't seem to be interested in anyone else's good time. I've seen some pretty serious acts of asshattery perpetrated by "pirates."
On the other hand, most of us who play Japanese persona or alternate persona tend to be respectful folk, and I haven't heard nearly the same kind of muttering.
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Post by Volk'abe on Apr 5, 2011 10:50:49 GMT -5
Those pictures are amazing. Thank you so much. I love that the crow's nest is like an actual tower.  Maybe I just listen to the wrong people too much but it's also the reason I registered a Russian name. But then I have always been told that I will probably get called more by the name I first met people under. Hence I respond to Ookami, Okabe and Volk. And my usual group of friends coined the Volk'abe. Now to try and get more serious about my woodworking. Thank you all again, I knew coming here would help me to be more positive again. |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 5, 2011 12:21:16 GMT -5
I've seen some pretty serious acts of asshattery perpetrated by "pirates." Not all of them, by any means. Due to some logistical weirdness I ended up camped with pirates at Great Western War. They were excellent neighbors and they thought the House of Cheerful Monkeys was pretty cool.  |
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Post by Noriko on Apr 5, 2011 14:40:15 GMT -5
This probably isn't exactly what you're looking for but you might enjoy reading "Memories of Wind and Waves" by Junichi Saga. Mr. Saga interviewed people who lived around the turn of the 20th century who made their living on lakes and rivers and while it's most certainly post period, the people involved lived out in the countryside/were very poor and had little, if any, 19th or 20th century technology, if that. Unfortunately, the book is out of print but you can probably get it from your library via Interlibrary Loan. Link: www.amazon.com/Memories-Wind-Waves-Self-Portrait-Lakeside/dp/4770027583/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302032107&sr=1-1 |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 5, 2011 17:22:24 GMT -5
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Post by Suzuki Ken'ichi on Apr 5, 2011 23:03:03 GMT -5
Not all of them, by any means. You are correct to correct me, Makiwara-dono. I have also seen acts of friendship and benevolence from some "pirate" players. I must also explain, in the interest of full disclosure, that I am prejudiced against those who choose to portray pirates. While serving in the United States Navy as a Hospital Corpsman, I encountered the aftermath of what pirates can do to the innocent. It was an experience which deeply scarred me, and left me with an abhorrence of pirates and piracy. I find any sympathetic portrayal of pirates and piracy to be obscene. Sometimes, I can overcome my prejudice enough to be friendly with those who have inexplicable pirate worship... though generally not without trying to explain to them, at least once, the truth behind their "heroes." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 6:28:25 GMT -5
I must also explain, in the interest of full disclosure, that I am prejudiced against those who choose to portray pirates. While serving in the United States Navy as a Hospital Corpsman, I encountered the aftermath of what pirates can do to the innocent. It was an experience which deeply scarred me, and left me with an abhorrence of pirates and piracy. I find any sympathetic portrayal of pirates and piracy to be obscene. Most of the bushi here feel the same way about ninjas and those who desire to portray them, so everybody here certainly understands how you feel. Historically speaking, things are not as cut and dry, in my opinion. I mean, at various times the the only difference between a "Pirate" and a "Royal privateer" was a letter of commission. That said, I think of nothing more properly SCAdian than smiling at someone in court and then trying to slaughter them on the field. |
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Post by arashi on Apr 6, 2011 10:41:46 GMT -5
To be fair, I've actually met a few people who have the same type of strong negative reaction to samurai as you do to pirates.
One guy I met abhorred samurai for the fact that they have a reputation for being bloodthirsty, egotistical bastards who would kill someone in the blink of an eye, for the slightest of perceived insults.
It all comes down to how a particular person plays the game with others.
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Post by Suzuki Ken'ichi on Apr 6, 2011 13:13:05 GMT -5
That said, I think of nothing more properly SCAdian than smiling at someone in court and then trying to slaughter them on the field. Several times, I have had the thought of organizing the "Atenveldt Royal Navy" to take the field against the various "pirate ships" we have here. The thing that keeps stopping me is the absurdity... Atenveldt is a landlocked kingdom. ;D Thanks both of you for your understanding words. You are of course right... everyone should be judged on their own merits, for their own actions. Unfortunately, Human OS 1.0 doesn't always make it easy for us to do that. |
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glenn
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Post by glenn on Jan 17, 2017 22:36:32 GMT -5
IIRC, there was actually a great deal of antipathy within _Japan_ in our period towards pirates. Though the definition tended to be "those other guys pillaging" rather than our virtuous and heroic sailors. In this time period, in Asia as well as Europe, what happened when two ships met on the open sea depended a lot on their relative size, speed and the rapaciousness of their crews, regardless of nationality. Drake and his contemporaries took a lot of "neutral" ships, to judge by Elizabethan Admiralty Court records.
In any case, the Japanese did have a reputation for piracy among other Asian nations at various times in the SCA time period. Not having studied Japan particularly or in depth, I can't say exactly what years though.
- Halfdan Ragnarsson, Sailor
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Post by solveig on Feb 15, 2017 13:38:49 GMT -5
Yes - There were Japanese pirates. Pirates make their appearance in Tosa Nikki by Ki no Tsurayuki. However, I would take Chinese claims of Japanese piracy with a grain of salt. Cultures like to blame outsiders for their maladies.
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One wonders if it even still exists after the tsunami. 
