no cephalopods?

[Kazimira]

Hi, newbie here, with what I think is maybe a cultural question ?

I haven't managed to turn up any cephalopods in my limited attempts to research Japanese designs. Assorted fish, shellfish, seaweed, waves, shells, etc., but no octopus, squids or cuttlefish.

Why is that ?

[Saionji Shonagon]

Jan 17, 2012 15:01:59 GMT -5 Kazimira said:

I haven't managed to turn up any cephalopods in my limited attempts to research Japanese designs. Assorted fish, shellfish, seaweed, waves, shells, etc., but no octopus, squids or cuttlefish.

Are you looking for mon or decorative motifs or what?

The only art that springs to mind are Edo period erotic woodblock prints of women and octopi.

[Kazimira]

Mon or decorative motifs. Why do crabs, lobsters and assorted fish turn up, but not squid or octopus ? Is there an inauspicious pun involved ? Or is the "tentacle porn" association so ancient and pervasive that no one would dream of embroidering one onto clothing ? Is there some other taboo ? Or did they not form part of the Japanese diet until very late, so that the only associations are modern (like the octopus and exams) ?

I'm in part interested because milord's registered arms feature an octopus, but in part I'm just curious from a cultural history/folklore POV.

[bovil]

Jan 17, 2012 19:55:48 GMT -5 Kazimira said:

Or is the "tentacle porn" association so ancient and pervasive that no one would dream of embroidering one onto clothing? Is there some other taboo ? Or did they not form part of the Japanese diet until very late, so that the only associations are modern (like the octopus and exams)?

Wellllll...

Yeah, there definitely are erotic drawings involving cephalopods from the Edo period. I have not heard of earlier examples. I doubt it's the reason. That's as far as I'm going with that.

Pre-Edo mon were generally symmetrical and stylized. Cephalopods don't lend themselves to the sort of symmetry or style consistent with period mon. Many of the gorgeous asymmetrical shellfish mon are Edo period.

And nothing would be embroidered on. Complicated designs may have been woven brocades or printed, but decorative embroidery does not appear during great swaths of Japanese history.