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Post by karasu91 on Apr 10, 2012 16:50:15 GMT -5
Konichi wa,
I have a rather serious question I am trying to resolve. However, I must first set up the question.
For many years I have been a member of the SCA. Do to work and school I moved a lot thorugh different kingdoms. I have also studied budo for most of my life and so naturally wanted to do a Japanese or Chinese persona. However, I was looked down on for wanting to do that. You could even say that I was shamed form doing it. The only place that really encouraged me did so saying I should be more Mongolian do to they were very similar to vikings in certain ways and so on.
Now for the question: How do you deal with those that say you shouldn't be an Asian persona for whatever reason?
I understand this question may have been asked already and I apologize for asking it again. The reason I am actually asking this is that I teach budo and many of my students were interested in the SCA and wanting to do an Asian persona and I want to lead by example, but I don't want them to have to experience the prejudice (for lack of a better term) that comes with it, but realize it may come anyway and so I want to give them some defenses to it.
I appreciate all of your answers.
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Post by Yagyu Jubei Takemori on Apr 10, 2012 16:56:08 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that you were discouraged from perusing your passion. My recommendation (and my opinion) is to do what makes you happy, and if someone wants to bad mouth you they are not worth enough to pay attention to. First and foremost though, do what makes you happy, otherwise its not worth doing.
My 2 cents
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Shinomori Haku
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Enemies you threaten make armies. Enemies you destroy make graves.
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Post by Shinomori Haku on Apr 10, 2012 17:16:58 GMT -5
play the way u want to, its ur duty to ur class to be an example. things will be hard but its ur words they respect not some random person, do a japanese persona the way you want to, state that u want to play there game but ur way, and smile at ur class and tell them not every one is like that and we can have fun. i get prejudice all the time as a leader of shinobi, my clan are openly ninjas, we get insalts all the time but at the end of the day were proud and happy about what we do, our good actions and how deeply we care about another helps and has changed a lot of peoples mind about what we are. it may also help to beet them at there own game, show that japanese persona can hold there own against them. im young and i make a lot of mistakes. i dont claim to know or understand everything, but i fallow one rule in life, and its dont be a dick... sorry for lack of better words.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 10, 2012 17:33:57 GMT -5
I am sorry you have to deal with people who have probably never had someone tell them they shouldn't do what they're doing in the SCA. As you can see by an article I webbed some time ago, I've run into this attitude myself. It can be irritating at best, upsetting and discouraging at worst. If Asian personae are not well accepted in your area, you and your friends are stuck with having to deal with these buttheads, er, I mean, the less enlightened. wodefordhall.com/japanesething.htmPlease be sure to note the bit about what the governing documents say. Yes, we're a minority, we're guests of the laurel kingdoms of the Known World, but there's nothing saying we can't be here either. (Interesting trivia: Queen Lucy of Narnia and at least one hobbit attended the First Tourney and they're imaginary!) As for handy stock answers? "That is a debatable point and one I prefer not to debate with you," isn't bad. "Well, this is what inspires me. What inspires you?" might at least get you to discuss things with the naysayer in a civil fashion. (Oh, and having a nodding acquaintance with the period from 1542 through 1600 during which the Portuguese were in contact with the Japanese is always great for teaching moments!) If you want to point to me as an example, feel free. I was Laureled January 6 of this year in the Kingdom of the West for Being All Japanese In Ur SCA.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Apr 10, 2012 18:36:42 GMT -5
I had a fantastic conversation once that went like this:
British Guy: "Japanese personas don't belong here. I'd never have interacted with you."
Me: "That's because you're not Portuguese."
Him: "Wait, what?"
Then we had a civil conversation about it, and all was happy. I suppose I was lucky, though.
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nana
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~Think Pink~ "I'm obnoxious!"
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Post by nana on Apr 10, 2012 19:50:06 GMT -5
Karasu-dono:
One of my favorite and most hated things about the SCA is the unique difference between each person and how they view other people pursuing their interests. Sure the SCA is geared more towards European Courts and Customs, but the beauty of it is that we can bring our own twist to it. It's our unique ideas and pursuits that really make up the game. In every persona, A&S entry, every piece of armor, and in every little thing we do whether we are an Asian persona or not.
That being said all you have to say in response to someone saying what you should or shouldn't be is, "Thank you for your concern." And then move on. It is not worth your time to be worrying about what someone else might think of you. All you can do is bring your best to the game and see if you can make a few converts while you're at it. You will be so much happier not worrying about people thinking whether you're right or wrong.
Don't be afraid to pursue something different. If someone says what you're doing isn't the right way then they aren't playing the game the right way because they aren't letting you grow and find your own path. Not everyone is like that.
Quick story for you- My squire brother recently asked me to be his consort so he could enter Crown Tournament. I made a favor for him and when I gave it to him he asked me if the Japanese had favors. He was genuinely interested and I got to have a teaching moment with him. In return I got a beautiful handmade favor that I intend to wear when I fight that fits who I am in the SCA and means more to me because he put in the effort to make me feel cared about.
So- after my long rant (my apologies) it isn't about what you are- it's about who you are and what you do with that.
Nana
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Lash
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perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
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Post by Lash on Apr 10, 2012 20:02:27 GMT -5
BAHAHAHAAHA!!!!! Ishida-dono i about spit tea through my nose lol!! as a long time scadian , cant count back that far as i am a stick jock and cant count past 6 pack, japanese persona type person . I have recieved alot of ridicule and derision but not so much in the past 5 years as we have invaded barbarian society. it is surprising that there are still nay sayers but the easiest way to deal with them is give them a blank stare bow and say " sumimasen, nani?" lol works everytime. but seriously what makes the difference is having familly like on this board that can help you , stand by you and in somecases swing a stick for you . as i would for any in the right. believe me the first time you show up to a local event with 4-5 fighters or A&S peeps you will be taken seriously and if your not then your familly can come play with my familly and be treated as you should be. and also my vindictiveness has to tell you to beat them at their own game. arts and science competitions, archery,hardsuiting,fencing,heraldry,marshalling and anything else you can compete in on a kingdom level. you start winning over your local group and it will open some eyes. no matter what be positive , cordial and open minded even if you get bubkiss in the begining . as in any martial art perserverence and superior state of mind will always win!!
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Post by Yawata Saburou Tadamori on Apr 10, 2012 22:37:41 GMT -5
it is surprising that there are still nay sayers but the easiest way to deal with them is give them a blank stare bow and say " sumimasen, nani?" lol works everytime. Pbfft!! I'll second that tea through the nose bit. I really need to remember that line when I see a "favorite" duke I know.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 10, 2012 23:08:00 GMT -5
but seriously what makes the difference is having familly like on this board that can help you , stand by you and in somecases swing a stick for you . This depicts only a small fraction of my Tousando "family." Eight of them traveled from other kingdoms just to support me on my elevation to the Order of the Laurel. A lot more were there in spirit. You people are my friends, my family, my inspiration.
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Apr 11, 2012 1:18:28 GMT -5
Now for the question: How do you deal with those that say you shouldn't be an Asian persona for whatever reason? Well... the Northshield had a Japanese king. Twice. In recent history. We're not recreating the European middle ages as they were (although I really want a plague doctor's outfit). We're creating the Current Middle Ages in the Knowne World of the SCA Kingdoms. Who is to say there aren't Asians in the Knowne World?
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bovil
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Fnord. Moo.
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Post by bovil on Apr 11, 2012 1:23:24 GMT -5
British Guy: "Japanese personas don't belong here. I'd never have interacted with you." It's also likely there were whole batches of Europeans he wouldn't have interacted with, depending on his era. And if he's an Elizabeefan, he wouldn't have interacted with Crusaders and Vikings either. I mean, the idea of people who didn't even live in the same century interacting? They didn't have caravans to Asia but they did have time machines?
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nana
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Post by nana on Apr 11, 2012 4:21:07 GMT -5
Hear Hear! We are recreating the pre 1600's like they were supposed to have been!
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Post by karasu91 on Apr 11, 2012 12:35:18 GMT -5
Arigato Gozaimasu!!!
You are all wonderful people and I truly appreciate your words of encouragement. Perhaps the only reason they look down on the Asian personas is they aren't couragious enough to do them theirselves.
Thank you all again!
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 11, 2012 13:02:39 GMT -5
People look down on others because they like feeling superior. (It's a common human trait, unfortunately, and one I ferociously try to discourage in myself. Sei Shonagon is a dangerous role model.)
It takes a bit of fortitude to be a non-Western persona in the SCA - there aren't a lot of us and we're often spread pretty thin geographically. That's why a lot of us network like crazy. You'll see a lot of "Who's going to [Insert Interkingdom Event Name Here]?" messages because we do like to get together when we can. In past years, we've formed an Asian themed encampment at Estrella War, and boy, do we have fun!
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Post by Sō Haruko on Apr 11, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -5
I have been warned that there are folks that are anti-Asian personae in my kingdom. I haven't met any yet. So far everyone has been nice, even if they aren't too sure where exactly my persona is from.
I'd say -- go, have fun, be yourself, enjoy your persona. And I like Lash-dono's suggestion of possible response! I'm saving that one should I ever need it myself ...
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