Japanese "Tabard"

[jon]

I'm planning on making one of these but don't know what they're called.
the picture is from "The Last Samurai"  Katsumoto
Its the fabric piece over the Armour I'm referring to.

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[Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa]

That's a jinbaori, which translates literally to "camp-coat". Well-to-do warriors wore them over armor while in camp in order to look more impressive.

[jon]

They sure do look more impressive, thank you!
Any additional information from anyone would be lovely.
Ie. patterns, history of the pieces, what ranks wear them etc

[worldantiques]

Dec 6, 2013 22:29:29 GMT -5 Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa said:

That's a jinbaori, which translates literally to "camp-coat". Well-to-do warriors wore them over armor while in camp in order to look more impressive.

I think that "jin" as in jingasa and jinbaori refers to "war", as in war hat (jingasa) and war coat (jinbaori).

Lots of images here.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2013 2:36:35 GMT -5 worldantiques said:

Dec 6, 2013 22:29:29 GMT -5 Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa said:

That's a jinbaori, which translates literally to "camp-coat". Well-to-do warriors wore them over armor while in camp in order to look more impressive.

I think that "jin" as in jingasa and jinbaori refers to "war", as in war hat (jingasa) and war coat (jinbaori).

Except I have also seen it translated as "camp" as in jinmaku camp curtains. It is possible that "jin" means something closer to "military encampment" which would lead to some translation difficulty (I do not speak or read Japanese). I mean, if the only camps are war camps, then "camp" and "war" are basically synonymous.

[Saionji Shonagon]

I've made a couple of them in the past. If you're planning to fight in your jinbaori, you'll want to opt for sturdy fabrics. The first one below was done in heavy cotton canvas. The one below it was in silk with a cotton lining.

tousando.proboards.com/thread/4303/revealed-jinbaori-minamoto-dono

tousando.proboards.com/thread/4128/revealed-jinbaori-takeshi-ko

I suppose I could try to whack together a pattern diagram on graph paper.* That said, you should probably make a mock-up out of cheap muslin and put it on over armor to make sure the arm-holes are spacious enough and that the length suits you.

*If I don't remember to do this, do please email me at [e-mail] and remind me. I suffer from congenital absent-mindedness. ;-(

[solveig]

Checking WWWJDIC. The JIN in question is: 陣 【じん】 (n) (1) (See 背水の陣) battle formation; (2) (See 陣を張る) camp; encampment; position; (n,n-suf) (3) (See 教授陣, 報道陣) group (with a common goal or purpose); (n) (4) (See 大坂夏の陣) war; battle; campaign.

[Ishikawa Yoshimasa]

speaking of Japanese tabards...

Meridies has recently decided to use a tabard and baldric system to identify archery marshals at the range. We will be using the tabard for marshal in charge((s)he who is running the range at that time) and baldric for live weapon marshals who may be assisting. would a jinbaori bearing the badge we have chosen for our marshals be appropriate for the tabard, or is there another garment that could be easily removed that is a better choice. we are presently thinking that my (or other non western persona) can use a suitable garment that has sufficiently similar appearance. I have an event coming up mid February where my Deputy Earl Marshal of Live Weapons will be present and wish to discuss my alternate tabard options with him, and a goal of having the garment ready to wear by mid April

I have thought of a jinbaori, and a kataginu as garments that are tabard like, and easily removed, and fairly easily donned when I serve in an official capacity.

This garment would need to look CLOSE ENOUGH so as to be identifiable by folks from areas of the kingdom not familiar with me or Japanese garments, need to be easily donned and removed, and need to not look completely wrong with a badge painted on it (preferably front and rear).

thank you for your input.
Ishikawa Yoshimasa

[solveig]

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig! I rather like the jinbaori 陣羽織 approach to things. Personally, I would put one big mucking image of the archery marshal badge on the back and two copies of the badge (one on each side) on the front.

[Shimazu Mitsunaga]

Look me up on Facebook (Robert Shroyer) or (SCA Japanese). I posted a quick and dirty jinbaori for everyone to see and use.

Shimazu

[Saionji Shonagon]

Obviously, see what the senior marshalate has to say on the subject. They may feel that a uniform standard is necessary. That said, there's no reason you couldn't make a case for a jinbaori as long as it displays the appropriate colors and badges in a visible, recognizable way.

(I REALLY need to get out the graph paper and whack together a pattern, but life keeps getting in the way!)

[Please Delete]

Jinbaori is good. Pattern is fairly straightforward... and not. They vary greatly, but usually aren't extremely complex. Benefits are that they go over anything and look quite martial. I would recommend making a very large version of the marshal standard on the back and then two smaller copies of the same at either shoulder (or on the lapels, depending on how you build it).

The benefit of a jinbaori over a kataginu is that a kataginu only really looks good if you tuck it into the hakama, and it really isn't supposed to go over anything other than a kosode or two. The jinbaori is much easier to put on and take off, no matter what you happen to be wearing.

[Ishikawa Yoshimasa]

Thank you all for your input. I was hoping a jinbaori was the preferred option as it seemed to fit the bill best. Now I can rough up some sketches and discuss it in better detail with Ronan.