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Post by Miura Suzume on Dec 24, 2015 10:18:28 GMT -5
皆様、今日は！ Alright, this is where I reveal my absolute dearth of knowledge about how to look for garb resources I actually understand. I would like to create a Muromachi-era buke persona. I'd like to construct a basic kosode/mobakana to run around in until I can do some more research. Unfortunately, I seem to be having trouble understanding what I'm reading when it comes to appropriate colors. I'd like to learn the rules for seasonally appropriate kosode colors and patterns. I want my early experiments with garb construction to use combinations that would be appropriate all year round. I understand that in general, lighter colors should go under darker ones, but there seem to be examples that break this rule. The best I can find on my own is this site, which is more about kimono than it is about kosode. Even that is all well and good for the two-color section, but I can't parse the three-color section at all. Also, when is it appropriate to wear two layers versus three? Two layers seems to be less formal, but I can't say that with absolute certainty. And where in the world do mobakana and obi fit into this, both color and layer-wise? I currently live in Trimaris, which makes constructing layered garments a little difficult, but Saionji-dono's examples for faking collars and hems will work well enough for that. It's just that as a person who learns best from concrete visual examples, I'm having quite a bit of trouble figuring out exactly what I'm looking at. If there is any kind of solid base to work up from, I would like to ask for an explanation. (If there is no solid base, I would also like to know that for certain so I can stop spinning around in circles!) |
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Post by solveig on Dec 24, 2015 11:59:36 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Unfortunately, the famous nuikata book is now long out of print. Otherwise, I would refer you to it as it even has patterns. About color usage in Japanese clothing and general clothing history, there are books in Japanese which can be ordered from Japan. Are you up to looking through illustrated Japanese texts? As for the mobakama. It is not much more than a wrap skirt. It is quite a bit different from the mo. As for Muromachi Japan. There are ranks and levels there. Further, at least some classical Japanese clothing appears to have been fossilized for court wear by at least the kuge (court aristocrat) class. You can see this in the coronation wear of modern emperors and their consorts. Have you looked through the Costume History of Japan at the Costume Museum? Perhaps this is the costume you are specifically interested in. Incidentally, premodern obi were much narrower than modern obi and were tied in front. This illustrates what I mean. Here are some interesting Japanese publications: 日本服飾史 女性編 (趣) A history of Japanese women's clothing. 和風レトロ地紋CD‐ROM A collection of Japanese textile patterns. The two instances of "this" in the main text are also links. |
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Post by Miura Suzume on Dec 24, 2015 13:06:37 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Unfortunately, the famous nuikata book is now long out of print. Otherwise, I would refer you to it as it even has patterns. About color usage in Japanese clothing and general clothing history, there are books in Japanese which can be ordered from Japan. Are you up to looking through illustrated Japanese texts? Looking through illustrations is always a pleasure. Thank you for the resources! As for the mobakama. It is not much more than a wrap skirt. It is quite a bit different from the mo. As for Muromachi Japan. There are ranks and levels there. Further, at least some classical Japanese clothing appears to have been fossilized for court wear by at least the kuge (court aristocrat) class. You can see this in the coronation wear of modern emperors and their consorts. Have you looked through the Costume History of Japan at the Costume Museum? Perhaps this is the costume you are specifically interested in. Incidentally, premodern obi were much narrower than modern obi and were tied in front. This illustrates what I mean. I actually linked both of those outfits from the Costume Museum in my original post! THat second picture contains one of those exceptions to the lighter-to-darker color rule I was talking about--she seems to be wearing white, a color/pattern, white again, and then the uchikake. I also noticed that the obi matches the uchikake, and I was wondering if the matching fabric was standard or if the obi should be a different fabric. As for the mobakana, my question was whether or not it should obey the same seasonal color rules as the rest of the garment. Here are some interesting Japanese publications: 日本服飾史 女性編 (趣) A history of Japanese women's clothing. 和風レトロ地紋CD‐ROM A collection of Japanese textile patterns. I will absolutely make it a point to acquire these in the near future! Hopefully they will be able to give me a more solid idea of what colors are appropriate for what seasons, or what colors are appropriate for use in any month. |
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 24, 2015 16:37:41 GMT -5
Jidai Ishou no Nuikata (「時代衣装の縫い方」) has still been available when I've visited the Costume Museum, so one may be able to reach out to them, but I would caution that it is much more focused on patterns than color.
My impression is that "appropriate" color combinations changed with fashion and time. The site you linked to with the seasonal colors is basic "kasane no irome", and seems to be based on "rules" that were written down in the Heian period, but it seems to be that those were the rules that a particular empress thought were appropriate in that year, and I suspect there were many other trends across the centuries. Your best bet is actually to go look at portraits and paintings from the time you are interested in and get a sense of the fashion. When in doubt, though, the kasane no irome is not a bad guide, generally. Realize that those colors were only a few of the layers, providing a general idea but not the exact combination of all of the layers of clothing.
Regarding the matching obi (or ate-obi), that was not uncommon for many garments for men and women. The white layers and such underneath I wouldn't worry too much about, other than usually it is a plain white robe at the innermost layer. That middle layer could be just the collar, and you will see false collars on some inner garments.
Mobakama would seem to be outside of the "rules" as far as the color layers, but they also seem to be a more informal garment, and not seen as often in the Muromachi Period, from what I can tell. It is an imminently practical garment for our purposes, however.
BTW, what sites are you looking at for clothing reference? Have you been to Saionji's website on kosode?
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Post by Miura Suzume on Dec 24, 2015 17:11:15 GMT -5
BTW, what sites are you looking at for clothing reference? Have you been to Saionji's website on kosode? Indeed I have! Most of the example pictures I linked in my original posts were ones I found via her website. Mostly I've been trying to rummage through her resource links and whatever I can find on Google, but I've never done any kind of garb research before, so I have no idea what constitutes a good resource and what constitutes a bad one. That's why I was unsure of the veracity of the wafuku wordpress entry. Speaking of that entry, the section with three colors is still very confusing for me. Taking into account your previous grain-of-salt advice, are the colors listed supposed to be read left to right or left-right-center, or...  Do you have any ideas? |
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 24, 2015 18:29:06 GMT -5
The three color charts are confusing, and I would ignore them unless you find the source with an explanation of what is going on. This site might give you more suggestions: www.immortalgeisha.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kasane_no_IromeGranted, that is specifically for Heian era layered outfits, but it should still be appropriate, later on. -Ii |
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 25, 2015 17:23:18 GMT -5
皆様、今日は！ Alright, this is where I reveal my absolute dearth of knowledge about how to look for garb resources I actually understand. I would like to create a Muromachi-era buke persona. I'd like to construct a basic kosode/mobakana to run around in until I can do some more research. Unfortunately, I seem to be having trouble understanding what I'm reading when it comes to appropriate colors. Mobakama screams female retainer of lower rank, just so you know. That said, if you're doing work in camp or helping in a feast kitchen, it's suitable for that sort of thing.  I don't have anything simple on this - what I know is based on looking at surviving garments (almost all of which are very high-end, ornate things) and genre art from the period. However, www.2hweb.net/haikai/renku/500ESWd.html lists seasonal motifs from Japanese poetry, so they may inspire you in terms of colors and decorative motifs you can play with. I live in the SF Bay Area. My average go-to is two layers unless it's unseasonably hot. Your "skin" layer really needs to be something breathable and laundry friendly. I usually like white linen in a light to mid-weight for this. Linen also works well for middle and outer layers where heat is a consideration: it has many similarities to hemp and ramie (fibers we know they had), while silk has insulating properties which are valuable on a cool or cold day. And of course, the blogger has not cited her sources! A lot of the "rules" she mentions are for kimono wear which postdates our period. Stop spinning. Breathe. Solid colors are your friend. Keep it simple. An obi is just a sash and unless you're in a kingdom where people label their students with certain colors, your obi can be pretty much any color you like. (Besides, if you're wearing a mobakama or hakama over it, nobody can see it anyway.) Make an undergarment-layer kosode in white. It will serve you well for *any* occasion. Make another kosode in a color you like, and perhaps another in another color you like that goes with it. |
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Post by solveig on Dec 25, 2015 17:48:58 GMT -5
Saionji Shonagon! Greetings from Solveig! Mobakama screams female retainer of lower rank, just so you know. That said, if you're doing work in camp or helping in a feast kitchen, it's suitable for that sort of thing. From your exalted kuge point of view, pretty much any member of the buke is of lower rank and beneath you. With the shogun and his family being nothing but a pack of posers. I know that you channel your inner Sei Shonagon. |
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Post by solveig on Dec 25, 2015 18:18:52 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Patterned cloth like a variety of large plaid like patterns show up in the Muromachi Period. There are quite a few color street scenes and other iconographic evidence to go on for this period. However, if you are just beginning your wardrobe, I agree that your first acquisitions should be solids. And, yes your innermost layer should be a bast fiber (hemp if you can find it) and white. Modern wafuku actually has very inner layers that are completely invisible when you have your clothes on. These include for women two very light weight upper garments. I forgot to mention this book before, but here is a 249 page illustrated book about Japanese clothing: 図解 日本の装束 (F-Files No.018)Maybe the Nuikata book is still available at the Costume Museum, but they do not appear to be distributing it. Used copies are available for purchase in Japan for rather stiff prices. As for colored belts. Unfortunately, there actually is a restriction on white belts. This is unfortunate as this was a regulation color for the obi worn by a variety of male officials in premodern Japan. Other colored obi have no significance in premodern Japan. As for colored belts in the Society. Other than white, no colored belts are registered with the College of Arms and have no official status. Some places have been trying to attach meanings to way too many colors. In addition to Red (squires to Knights), Yellow (proteges to Pelicans), and Green (apprentices to Laurels) some places have attached meanings to Blue and Black as well. One time a queen mistook a beige/brown simply tanned not dyed yellow belt I was wearing for a yellow protege belt. It gets so that there isn't anything to hold your clothes up. My advice is to simply avoid a white obi and use any other color that you like. I would avoid purple as that was a very expensive dye and historically was reserved in a bunch of places. |
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Post by Miura Suzume on Dec 27, 2015 12:32:58 GMT -5
助けてくれて、ありがとう！Thank you for all of your help. I actually did read somewhere else on this site that the mobakama was mostly for retainers, but until I get used to making and moving around in Japanese garb, I feel as though making something I won't be afraid to get a little dirty will be better for my sanity. Make what you like to wear and be willing to say that you're doing it wrong on purpose, right? ^_^
Also: What I seem to be hearing is that the mobakama goes on over the obi and covers it instead of functioning as a makeshift obi on its own. Is that correct?
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 27, 2015 21:31:36 GMT -5
That would appear to be the way of it (obi under the mobakama) as the obi seems to be there no matter what else. BTW, you may want to look at this, too: www.iz2.or.jp/fukushoku/f_disp.php?page_no=0000080. Look at how the layers, which would normally be dragging on the ground behind her, are gathered up. This is another option for walking around sites where you have to be (*shock!*) on the ground instead of walking along on the nice wood floors of your shinden mansion. I suspect something similar should work for most uchikake as well, if necessary. There is nothing wrong with mobakama, though, but realize what Solveig-hime has said is true, that they feel a bit more low-class. Then again, many people are in "low-class" garb at events, anyway, or dressed down, whether people realize it or not. -Ii |
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Post by Miura Suzume on Dec 28, 2015 0:25:04 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with mobakama, though, but realize what Solveig-hime has said is true, that they feel a bit more low-class. Then again, many people are in "low-class" garb at events, anyway, or dressed down, whether people realize it or not. I don't know if it's because I'm from an eastern kingdom or because I grew up running around sites in quick-sewn pants and tunics or because of some other reason entirely, but I've never necessarily thought of being dressed-down as a problem. At least the way my mental logic runs, you save your high-class garb for high-class situations (special occasions, court, feast, etc), events when you know for sure you won't be doing physical labor, or for the occasion when you've made something new and REALLY want to show it off. But 98% of the time, I'm in the kitchen or running back and forth across site half the day, which doesn't feel like appropriate timing to wear pretty stuff. I would much rather be in something that feels lower-class but is easier to make, clean, and/or replace than make a higher-class outfit right off the bat and risk messing it up or ruining it immediately. Does that make any kind of sense? |
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Do you have any ideas?
